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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Who's The Baddie?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by fishtailsam, Oct 31, 2012.

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  1. darthtimetraveller

    darthtimetraveller Jedi Knight star 3

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    Aug 9, 2015

    At this point anything but another Skywalker turning to the darkside again. It's too predictable, it's a repeat/rehash and it's lame, bro. Leia's or Luke's kids turning bad and becoming the big bad of the ST is among the lamest ideas imo. A resurrected Plagueis as a darkside demi-god is probably the best way to go, to keep the ST recognizable and connected with the rest of the saga.
     
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  2. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2012
    Bro, "anything" would include quite a lot of things that are not fresh and new or bold. Resurrected villains are also nothing new or fresh, as I said in the Snoke thread. They are the worst possible cliches.

    So I guess you don't want fresh new bold coffee, but the Yuban you're used to. Bro (cliche). :kylo:
     
  3. Darth Mikey

    Darth Mikey Jedi Master star 3

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    Sep 7, 2015


    Fresh, new, and bold?

    How about this - Leia is Snoke. She's been secretly practicing the Dark Side all this time, the "Anakin Part" of her Skywalker blood gets the best of her. She helped and allowed Kylo to fall to the Dark Side, and become a Knight of Ren. She helps coordinate the space battle at the end of this, knowing the Resistance fleet is outgunned, knowing they will suffer heavy casualties. she helped plan the attack on Luke's Academy, cause she knew where it was, and when Luke would be gone and everyone vulnerable. And she breaks up with Han, breaking his heart, after he already lost his son and his beloved Falcon!

    Carrie Fisher, Agent of Evil!!!

    And, yes, i have been drinking!!
     
  4. darthtimetraveller

    darthtimetraveller Jedi Knight star 3

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    Aug 9, 2015

    I respect your moxie. Plagueis is worse than a bad Skywalker again iyo? Seriously?! Bro.
     
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  5. Darth Mikey

    Darth Mikey Jedi Master star 3

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    Sep 7, 2015
    Plagueis doesn't have to be "resurrected"... perhaps he was near death, but Sidious thought he actually killed him. Plagueis retreats and disappears into the farthest reaches of the galaxy, and eventually beyond it. He finds in the source of the Dark Side the means to keep himself alive, rather than just extend his life. But that doesn't mean he necessarily would be "healed" from whatever Sidious did to him. Indeed , wasn't Snoke described as deathly looking and "zombie like"?
     
  6. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2012
    Much worse. At least the Skywalkers are an important part of the Saga. In fact, it's their story and KK and Lucas have stated as much.

    Plagueis never even appeared. He was just some weak punk who got offed in his sleep. Not very threatening.

    So the Skywalkers have dramatic tension already built into their narrative arc. Plagueis coming back would just be an empty cliche.

    Bro.

    EDIT: Immortal villains are just as cliche as resurrected villains. And the idea that Palpatine didn't know he was dead diminishes his character.
     
  7. Darth Mikey

    Darth Mikey Jedi Master star 3

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    Sep 7, 2015


    I don't know if it necessarily would diminish his character. Would kind of fit with his overwhelming arrogance about everything. He just assumes he killed Plagueis without making sure the body was cold and stiff.

    For the record, I DON'T think Plagueis is the villain, or Snoke, or will even appear. I think Snoke is something new we've never seen before. But it's kinda fun to speculate!
     
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  8. darthtimetraveller

    darthtimetraveller Jedi Knight star 3

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    Aug 9, 2015
    This is a joke right lol. Bro.
     
  9. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    Son versus dad or brother versus sister, cousin versus cousin, is the mythological cloth the OT is made of. Blood relations play a big part in mythological stories. Look at Oedipus or Hercules or other old greek myths.

    Resurrected villains are more a thing of modern fantasy genre fiction. Basically it all goes back to Tolkien and the unfortunate tendency to imitate his style rather than inventing your own races and fantasies.

    I'd rather the series keeps to its mythological roots instead of following a popular genre trope.
     
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  10. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I'm not going to say which I think is worse, but I will say that Plagueis and another Skywalker both sound like bad ideas.
     
  11. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    Nonetheless, it doesn't look like they're trying to reinvent the wheel. The ST will be of the same cloth as previous Star Wars, so one of the villains will probably be of blood relation.

    But that includes weirder options as well like using tissue samples from Vader scraped from the helmet and creating a child through artificial fertilization. Maybe the KOR have tried to create their own saviour using the DNA of the holy Darth Vader. If Vader is Kylo Ren's biological father, it would definitely explain Kylo's obsession with him.
     
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  12. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    Wait a minute. If Vader is Kylo's biological father, maybe Ren is his mother. Maybe Ren was the name of a dark lady who used Darth Vader's DNA to impregnate herself with a new Chosen One of the darkside.

    Doesn't Aftermath contain weird evil cultists who are obsessed with getting Vader's mortal remains?
     
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  13. kip73

    kip73 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 30, 2003
    I notice that JJ and Adam Driver were very careful when describing Kylo Ren. They used words like dangerous, fiery, emotional, intense, etc. Driver said something along the lines of how he thinks that he's doing the right thing.

    He is a villain. But he's not totally evil. I'm thinking more of an anti-hero that we'll be able to relate to.

    EDIT - also, we need to know what Snoke's role is and how he's influencing Kylo before we can start to figure this mystery out
     
  14. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    Things that are obvious about Snoke:

    He is a teacher
    He has some ties to the Empire of past and the Sith
    He is a powerful user of the dark side
    He is the leader of the Knights of Ren, he can give orders to Kylo

    I'm not sure we need to know much more than that. If we're told he is an ex-Inquisitor that's enough for me.
     
  15. Darthmaul208

    Darthmaul208 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 29, 2013
    Do you sources for these?
    The leader of the Knights of Ren? Haven't heard that.
    Same with the ties.

    ON some merchandise a scene is described where

    Rey fights Some Knights of Ren so they are in the film.



    Also I though Kylo was an ex member of the Knights of Ren?

    It should be noted that Kylo built his lightsaber on his own. So why didn't Snoke teach him or help?
     
  16. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    Some of these are conclusions from official interviews.

    Kylo calls himself Kylo Ren, so he is still a Knight of Ren. And didn't JJ Abrams directly say he was a Knight of Ren?

    As for that saber, who knows.
     
  17. nightangel

    nightangel Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 31, 2014
    So you mean we get Luuke. In the EU (Thrawn trilogy) it was a clone of Luke done by dna from his lost hand. So now some dna from Vader helmet to make another Luke. [face_tee_hee]
     
  18. Darthmaul208

    Darthmaul208 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 29, 2013
    "He is a character who came to the name Kylo Ren when he joined a group called the Knights of Ren,” Abrams says"

    I don't know but I think he still is then.
     
  19. danmcken

    danmcken Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 7, 2003
    I dont think that Snoke is going to be the big bad , he will probably think he is and is using the First order as pawns in his plans. But the true bad guy will be the Ancient fear from the beyond that he has awoken.
     
  20. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    Exactly, he's still a Ren.

    More or less, but without it being a clone. Clones are dumb story devices, annoying, artificial impregnation is done in real life however. The consequence of it is that Kylo Ren would be the Chosen One of the KOR and raised in the order.

    The idea that Kylo is a Sky/Solo but just went dark doesn't ring true for me for some reason. I always believed Han and Leia or Luke would make for good parents. Why would their kids go bad?
     
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  21. Darthmaul208

    Darthmaul208 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 29, 2013
    They would have their reasons. I mean maybe Kylo just involved in some bad stuff without realising what it is.
    Maybe he thinks he is a hero?
     
  22. nightangel

    nightangel Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 31, 2014
    yeah and maybe not a bad idea and it already fits to Palps doing experiments to create powerful force users. So what better chance than using dna of a Skywalker/Vader. ;)
     
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  23. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    Hm, Palpatine needed Luke Skywalker in ROTJ, so Palps couldn't have come very far if he tried something like that on his own. But someone else might succeed.

    Like I said, it doesn't ring true to me that this would happen. It's probably possible to sell it but that person would need to be a very skilled writer. The EU has a negative-example to offer with Jacen Solo, I believe? I must admit though that I never came further than the books in which he turned into space Jesus.
     
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  24. Darth Mikey

    Darth Mikey Jedi Master star 3

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    Sep 7, 2015

    Maybe it's just too much for him to live up to - son of Han and Leia, 2 of the greatest hero's in Galactic history. Nephew to Luke Skywalker, the last Jedi. Kylo Solo - from birth expected to be a great hero, the Galaxy's best pilot, and the future of the Jedi Order. His destiny already set for him from the day he could walk. And perhaps he rejects it all. Decides he wants to go his own way. Perhaps stories of how his grandfather rejected his destiny and went his own way, becoming Darth Vader, whom Kylo is obsessed with. What better way to follow and "honor" his beloved grandfather than literally following his path down the Dark Side, rejecting everything good in him, and even changing his name and wearing a mask? Even to the point of helping the Knights of Ren slaughter Luke's Jedi Academy students, much like Anakin leading the 501st to slaughter Jedi in the Temple.
     
  25. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    Wouldn't his parents help him deal with the expectations?

    If he is indeed a Sky/Solo, I bet he was kidnapped as a toddler.
     
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