1. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 7
    Yeah, it is quite a heavy burden to squeeze this non-entity (as far as the films go) past all of the logic/plot points that using him would seemingly demolish.
  2. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    The book tells you a lot about Plagueis. One of the most important things it does tell you is we shouldn't ignore the fact that, like all Force Users before him, he wasn't all knowing and all powerful. But after the many attempts on his life had almost cost him just that, and later sensing the prophetic disturbance that was Anakin Skywalker, he could have planned a false death and disappeared on some backwater planet until the prophecy was fulfilled.

    But this scenario only confirms what the Jedi had said about misreading the Prophecy and somewhat diminishes what Anakin had done to save the galaxy. Or maybe it doesn't...
    darklordoftech likes this.
  3. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    ANY post-ROTJ darksider would do that.
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  4. EviL_eLF Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2003
    star 4
    The prophecy is overblown IMO and is very minor in terms of galactic importance. I think the flaw and Anakin's downfall in the first place was the false importance placed on said prophecy. They never knew what it meant and didn't know how to guide him because of it. They just kept calling him the chosen one until he believed it meant he would be all powerful... they dangled power infront of him like a carrot and were shocked when he went after it.

    Destroying all sith had nothing to do with the balance of the force... the jedi can't destroy the sith just as the sith can't destroy the jedi.
  5. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    then bring on Plagueis!
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  6. EviL_eLF Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2003
    star 4
    I still don't want Plagueis... I'd rather some isolated long forgotten branch of the Sith finally coming out of isolation to join the galactic stage.

    In other words... give me a Sith army!!!! ;)
    Last edited by EviL_eLF, Jun 22, 2013
  7. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 5
    I like this idea. The Rebellion wins, but over the next 20 or 30 years, we see the galaxy is still a place of inequality and turmoil, controlled by powerful interests. Why is it that nothing improves, progresses? Because behind the scenes, the Rebellion was secretly controlled/funded by Plagueis, or similarly selfish forces.

    The entire Empire/Rebellion struggle could really been one huge manipulation, just like the Clone Wars. Only this time, Palpatine (knowingly or not) vs. Plagueis.

    Perhaps Plagueis will now want to destroy the final remnants of the Empire, although they have remained at peace with the New Republic. That could motivate our heroes to make an unlikely alliance with the remnant against the republic.
    Last edited by Dra---, Jun 22, 2013
  8. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    In addition to that, perhaps Plagueis engineered the creation of the Death Star to get rid of Alderaan, but also made sure that the Death Star had its infamous weaknesses to make sure Palpatine doesn't become too powerful.
  9. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I imagine this as quite lame.

    Evil monologue: "Oh, I was behind Palpatines machinations and by the way I also funded the rebellion and by the way I also caused its collapse after Endor and by the way I was the one who put the exhaust port into the Death Star and by the way I created Anakin Skywalker and by the way...."

    Continued ad nausea. Apparently Plagueis is responsible for "everything" despite never appearing on screen. [face_not_talking]

    Sounds like Voldemort all over. If you want your villain to be iconic, making him a copy of another popular villain is not the way to go imo.
    Darth Claire likes this.
  10. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    I love these ideas. :) The fact that no one knows who he is, or what he is for that matter, only enforces the idea. And there would be no Jedi around to figure out that he was a Force User, too. The guy was one of the richest beings in the galaxy, so it is possible he could have been one of the main funders.
    Last edited by DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR, Jun 23, 2013
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  11. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    True, except that I don't want to see "We thought the Sith were extinct, but we were wrong." again.
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  12. Darkslayer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2013
    star 4
    Well that is going to be the case no matter what villain they use because we all know it's not Star Wars without the Sith.
  13. Darkslayer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2013
    star 4
    Disagree with you there. Plagueis was much more of a thinker than Voldemort - Voldy never really considered what defying death would do to him, while Plagueis was obsessed with finding answers.
    Force Smuggler likes this.
  14. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Who's to say the heroes will assume the Sith to be extinct after ROTJ? VII could open with the Jedi always on the lookout for Sith.
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jun 23, 2013
  15. Darkslayer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2013
    star 4
    He wouldn't have been hiding - IMO, he would have been literally dead, and he would have like a trigger or something that would bring him back only once Anakin and Sidious were both destroyed and the prophecy fulfilled. Remeber, Plagueis said he was splitting from the Rule of Two, so technically the prophecy wouldn't apply to him. This way neither Anakin nor Sidious is diminished IMO.
  16. Darkslayer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2013
    star 4
    If the prophecy hadn't been as important as it was I would agree with you. But if Plagueis is the villain literally no one would know he is back, not even Luke.
  17. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Luke? Counting on some prophecy? I don't know about that.
  18. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    star 4
    While this piece of speculation is very much intriguing, I can bring up one point to refute the argument that Plagueis could have forseen the downfall of the Sith (although it's true he very much feared the Chosen One prophecy). In the short story The Tenebrous Way, written by Matt Stover, Plagueis' Master Darth Tenebrous* managed to create a retrovirus that would transform midi-chlorians into maxi-chlorians, which would allow his consciousness to migrate into the body of Plagueis after his death, which Tenebrous had forseen. The side effect of the maxi-chlorians, however, was to rob the user and the host of their ability to possess foresight. Tenebrous' utltimate ambition was to possess and become the Chosen One of the prophecy.

    However, upon his death, Tenebrous' consciousness transferred to Plagueis', and to his horror he realized that the maxi-chlorians had caused his apprentice to lose his foresight and that he would die too soon as the hands of Sidious... Perhaps this could have explained Plagueis' strange complacency? If we take everything Stover wrote at face value (and I see no reason not to), then we have to conclude that Plagueis had lost his foresight and therefore became potentially less powerful than his apprentice in the long-term.

    *It is interesting that few have brought up Tenebrous, who I find to be a fascinating Sith Lord. He was Plagueis' Master after all, and taught the latter many of the things that would define the Muun Sith Lord. I do recall that @Slowpokeking did mention the possibility of Tenebrous' spirit returning as the villain of the ST a few months ago in this thread. It certainly got me thinking, although Tenebrous is an EU-only character and has a far lesser chance of appearing than Plagueis, IMO.
  19. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Revenge of the Bith!
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  20. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    If he was such a big thinker then why was he killed by his pupil while being drunk?

    I only see superficial differences between Plagueis and Voldemort and in a movie franchise that could pose a problem. Plagueis as represented in the Darth Plagueis novel is too much like Voldemort 2.0, imo. If you read the Harry Potter books Voldemort was there portrayed as emotionless, analytical, cold and manipulative, all adjectives that would fit Plagueis as well.
  21. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    It's possible that Plagueis had used a cloned body double. It would explain his guard being down during his last visit with Sidious, and also explain the lack of fighting back, which I'm sure he could have.

    Besides what we think, wasn't this book the only novel where Lucas had the most involvement in, and therefore was delayed for reasons because of it? This might be an implication of where the ST is heading, especially if Lucas had decided on the sale and subsequent sequels during the writing of this novel.
    Last edited by DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR, Jun 23, 2013
  22. StoneRiver Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2004
    star 4
    It sure is lame when you put like that [face_laugh]



    But in all seriousness, can you name one film, that isn't a comedy, that contains an evil monologue such as that?

    All the info the audience needs to know can be conveyed in much better ways than that.
    (Although I'm in agreeance with you that maybe we're making Plagueis responsible for a little too much. Staying hidden, planning, training a new team and funding Palpatine's enemies is all he needs to be responsible for. Again though, only IF he is to be used)

    And with regard to the "never appearing on screen" - that was GL's original plan all along for the main baddie. It is well documented. Just makes it another logical reason why we would GUESS Plagueis could be the baddie. :)
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  23. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    I was responding to how fans always make fun of Imperial incompetence and Death Star weaknesses.

    Fans: Why does the Death Star have silly weaknesses? Why can't Stormtroopers shoot?
    Sequel Trilogy: Because of Plagueis!
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Jun 23, 2013
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  24. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    I've tried to keep an open mind about the Plagueis returning idea because I want to remain optimistic about any avenue the filmmakers want to take the saga down. But the more I try to make it work for me the more I become unconvinced. There's just no idea I've read or thought of myself that convinces me that it wouldn't severely undermine the message of the saga so far or weaken many of the characters. I know many say it would tie the entire saga together but to me it just seems like bringing a dead character from the past into the future to fight our new heroes because the writers can't think of a logical way to keep the story going forward. And I can't express how much I dislike the idea that Plagueis was secretly manipulating everything from the beginning.

    I don't want a villain who has to explain to us where he's been for the last few decades. I want a villain who crops up as a natural consequence of the events of the two trilogies. What I mean by this is that evil isn't always a guy in a dark cloak who shoots lightning from his fingers and just because the heroes won the battle doesn't mean they should rest on their laurels. They need to remain vigilant because evil comes in many different forms. I would like to see the ST deal with themes like this. I'm not advocating for a story with no lightsaber duels but I am advocating for something different then the supervillain who wants to destroy the heroes and rule the galaxy because he's a Sith and well that's what they do. :p
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  25. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    I wonder what you have in mind. An evil lightsider? A non-Sith darksider? (I'm cool with both.)
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