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ST Who's The Baddie?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by fishtailsam, Oct 31, 2012.

Thread Status:: Not open for further replies.

Page 135 of 1129

darthfettus2015 Jedi Master

Registered:

Nov 15, 2012

the more i tink of it, the more I like the Plagueis idea, was one of my fave scenes in ROTS and its inclusion and Lucas' involvement in the book. Surely the Plagueis story told to Anakin must mean more than trying to get him to turn to the darksideto save her life! Also, many think we will see Yoda etc as ghosts, maybe Plagueis will be a ghost too, directing someones hand

darthfettus2015, Jun 23, 2013

#3351

Dra---, Summer Dreamer and darklordoftech like this.
Ghost Chosen One

Registered:

Oct 13, 2003

It wouldn't make sense to have a non-Sith darksider. What's the difference, besides the name?

It has to either be Sith, or something entirely new.

Ghost, Jun 23, 2013

#3352
darklordoftech Force Ghost

Registered:

Sep 30, 2012

Summer Dreamer said: ↑

It wouldn't make sense to have a non-Sith darksider. What's the difference, besides the name?

It has to either be Sith, or something entirely new.
Click to expand...

If darksiders are anti-semites, Sith are Nazis. I'd be happy to discuss it at http://boards.theforce.net/forums/star-wars-saga-in-depth.10456/.

darklordoftech, Jun 23, 2013

#3353
Force Smuggler Force Ghost

Registered:

Sep 2, 2012

Voldemort wanted to control the Wizarding World by gaining control via Pure-Bloods and terror strikes.
Plagueis could attempt to gain control of the galaxy by manipulating the Force to weaken an enemy or create an army of force monsters.

Besides Voldemort was an arrogant character. Plagueis didn't seem like that to me.

Force Smuggler, Jun 23, 2013

#3354
Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films Staff Member Manager

Registered:

Oct 31, 2012

darklordoftech said: ↑

Darth Chiznuk said: ↑

I've tried to keep an open mind about the Plagueis returning idea because I want to remain optimistic about any avenue the filmmakers want to take the saga down. But the more I try to make it work for me the more I become unconvinced. There's just no idea I've read or thought of myself that convinces me that it wouldn't severely undermine the message of the saga so far or weaken many of the characters. I know many say it would tie the entire saga together but to me it just seems like bringing a dead character from the past into the future to fight our new heroes because the writers can't think of a logical way to keep the story going forward. And I can't express how much I dislike the idea that Plagueis was secretly manipulating everything from the beginning.

I don't want a villain who has to explain to us where he's been for the last few decades. I want a villain who crops up as a natural consequence of the events of the two trilogies. What I mean by this is that evil isn't always a guy in a dark cloak who shoots lightning from his fingers and just because the heroes won the battle doesn't mean they should rest on their laurels. They need to remain vigilant because evil comes in many different forms. I would like to see the ST deal with themes like this. I'm not advocating for a story with no lightsaber duels but I am advocating for something different then the supervillain who wants to destroy the heroes and rule the galaxy because he's a Sith and well that's what they do.
Click to expand...

I wonder what you have in mind. An evil lightsider? A non-Sith darksider? (I'm cool with both.)
Click to expand...

Well when I think of the unresolved threads left over from ROTJ (namely the restoration of the Republic and the Jedi Order) I try to think of what type of villain that we haven't seen before could cause our heroes the most trouble in accomplishing their goals. How about a character who lived through the tumultuous events of the PT and OT and one whose views were shaped by them. I'm thinking a non Force sensitive politician who believes the Jedi and Sith were equally responsible for the fall of the Republic and will do anything to prevent something like that from ever happening again. Of course he wouldn't be above using Force users for his own nefarious goals so we would have our lightsaber duels. I'm drawn to a villain like this because it just feels like such a natural outcome of everything that came before and would give us a view of the Jedi post-ROTJ that we haven't seen yet.

Darth Chiznuk , Jun 23, 2013

#3355

darklordoftech likes this.
darklordoftech Force Ghost

Registered:

Sep 30, 2012

Darth Chiznuk said: ↑

darklordoftech said: ↑

Darth Chiznuk said: ↑

I've tried to keep an open mind about the Plagueis returning idea because I want to remain optimistic about any avenue the filmmakers want to take the saga down. But the more I try to make it work for me the more I become unconvinced. There's just no idea I've read or thought of myself that convinces me that it wouldn't severely undermine the message of the saga so far or weaken many of the characters. I know many say it would tie the entire saga together but to me it just seems like bringing a dead character from the past into the future to fight our new heroes because the writers can't think of a logical way to keep the story going forward. And I can't express how much I dislike the idea that Plagueis was secretly manipulating everything from the beginning.

I don't want a villain who has to explain to us where he's been for the last few decades. I want a villain who crops up as a natural consequence of the events of the two trilogies. What I mean by this is that evil isn't always a guy in a dark cloak who shoots lightning from his fingers and just because the heroes won the battle doesn't mean they should rest on their laurels. They need to remain vigilant because evil comes in many different forms. I would like to see the ST deal with themes like this. I'm not advocating for a story with no lightsaber duels but I am advocating for something different then the supervillain who wants to destroy the heroes and rule the galaxy because he's a Sith and well that's what they do.
Click to expand...

I wonder what you have in mind. An evil lightsider? A non-Sith darksider? (I'm cool with both.)
Click to expand...

Well when I think of the unresolved threads left over from ROTJ (namely the restoration of the Republic and the Jedi Order) I try to think of what type of villain that we haven't seen before could cause our heroes the most trouble in accomplishing their goals. How about a character who lived through the tumultuous events of the PT and OT and one whose views were shaped by them. I'm thinking a non Force sensitive politician who believes the Jedi and Sith were equally responsible for the fall of the Republic and will do anything to prevent something like that from ever happening again. Of course he wouldn't be above using Force users for his own nefarious goals so we would have our lightsaber duels. I'm drawn to a villain like this because it just feels like such a natural outcome of everything that came before and would give us a view of the Jedi post-ROTJ that we haven't seen yet.
Click to expand...

Very true. Then I suppose we would have evil lightsiders, because the Dark Side involves hatred, not just evil.

darklordoftech, Jun 23, 2013

#3356
Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films Staff Member Manager

Registered:

Oct 31, 2012

darklordoftech said: ↑

Darth Chiznuk said: ↑

darklordoftech said: ↑

Darth Chiznuk said: ↑

I've tried to keep an open mind about the Plagueis returning idea because I want to remain optimistic about any avenue the filmmakers want to take the saga down. But the more I try to make it work for me the more I become unconvinced. There's just no idea I've read or thought of myself that convinces me that it wouldn't severely undermine the message of the saga so far or weaken many of the characters. I know many say it would tie the entire saga together but to me it just seems like bringing a dead character from the past into the future to fight our new heroes because the writers can't think of a logical way to keep the story going forward. And I can't express how much I dislike the idea that Plagueis was secretly manipulating everything from the beginning.

I don't want a villain who has to explain to us where he's been for the last few decades. I want a villain who crops up as a natural consequence of the events of the two trilogies. What I mean by this is that evil isn't always a guy in a dark cloak who shoots lightning from his fingers and just because the heroes won the battle doesn't mean they should rest on their laurels. They need to remain vigilant because evil comes in many different forms. I would like to see the ST deal with themes like this. I'm not advocating for a story with no lightsaber duels but I am advocating for something different then the supervillain who wants to destroy the heroes and rule the galaxy because he's a Sith and well that's what they do.
Click to expand...

I wonder what you have in mind. An evil lightsider? A non-Sith darksider? (I'm cool with both.)
Click to expand...

Well when I think of the unresolved threads left over from ROTJ (namely the restoration of the Republic and the Jedi Order) I try to think of what type of villain that we haven't seen before could cause our heroes the most trouble in accomplishing their goals. How about a character who lived through the tumultuous events of the PT and OT and one whose views were shaped by them. I'm thinking a non Force sensitive politician who believes the Jedi and Sith were equally responsible for the fall of the Republic and will do anything to prevent something like that from ever happening again. Of course he wouldn't be above using Force users for his own nefarious goals so we would have our lightsaber duels. I'm drawn to a villain like this because it just feels like such a natural outcome of everything that came before and would give us a view of the Jedi post-ROTJ that we haven't seen yet.
Click to expand...

Very true. Then I suppose we would have evil lightsiders, because the Dark Side involves hatred, not just evil.
Click to expand...

Well, when I mentioned him using Force users I didn't mean Jedi or Sith. Actually, what I was thinking is that he would be in charge of a secret program that was indoctrinating young Force users to become soldiers or something. This would of course be part of his plan to wipe them all out but I haven't thought it all out.

Darth Chiznuk , Jun 23, 2013

#3357
darklordoftech Force Ghost

Registered:

Sep 30, 2012

Darth Chiznuk said: ↑

darklordoftech said: ↑

Darth Chiznuk said: ↑

darklordoftech said: ↑

Darth Chiznuk said: ↑

I've tried to keep an open mind about the Plagueis returning idea because I want to remain optimistic about any avenue the filmmakers want to take the saga down. But the more I try to make it work for me the more I become unconvinced. There's just no idea I've read or thought of myself that convinces me that it wouldn't severely undermine the message of the saga so far or weaken many of the characters. I know many say it would tie the entire saga together but to me it just seems like bringing a dead character from the past into the future to fight our new heroes because the writers can't think of a logical way to keep the story going forward. And I can't express how much I dislike the idea that Plagueis was secretly manipulating everything from the beginning.

I don't want a villain who has to explain to us where he's been for the last few decades. I want a villain who crops up as a natural consequence of the events of the two trilogies. What I mean by this is that evil isn't always a guy in a dark cloak who shoots lightning from his fingers and just because the heroes won the battle doesn't mean they should rest on their laurels. They need to remain vigilant because evil comes in many different forms. I would like to see the ST deal with themes like this. I'm not advocating for a story with no lightsaber duels but I am advocating for something different then the supervillain who wants to destroy the heroes and rule the galaxy because he's a Sith and well that's what they do.
Click to expand...

I wonder what you have in mind. An evil lightsider? A non-Sith darksider? (I'm cool with both.)
Click to expand...

Well when I think of the unresolved threads left over from ROTJ (namely the restoration of the Republic and the Jedi Order) I try to think of what type of villain that we haven't seen before could cause our heroes the most trouble in accomplishing their goals. How about a character who lived through the tumultuous events of the PT and OT and one whose views were shaped by them. I'm thinking a non Force sensitive politician who believes the Jedi and Sith were equally responsible for the fall of the Republic and will do anything to prevent something like that from ever happening again. Of course he wouldn't be above using Force users for his own nefarious goals so we would have our lightsaber duels. I'm drawn to a villain like this because it just feels like such a natural outcome of everything that came before and would give us a view of the Jedi post-ROTJ that we haven't seen yet.
Click to expand...

Very true. Then I suppose we would have evil lightsiders, because the Dark Side involves hatred, not just evil.
Click to expand...

Well, when I mentioned him using Force users I didn't mean Jedi or Sith. Actually, what I was thinking is that he would be in charge of a secret program that was indoctrinating young Force users to become soldiers or something. This would of course be part of his plan to wipe them all out but I haven't thought it all out.
Click to expand...

I never said otherwise.

darklordoftech, Jun 23, 2013

#3358
Darth Archimage Jedi Master

Registered:

May 28, 2013

Summer Dreamer said: ↑

It wouldn't make sense to have a non-Sith darksider. What's the difference, besides the name?

It has to either be Sith, or something entirely new.
Click to expand...

I think that depends on what you mean by "non-Sith darksider"
Couldn't there be a bad force-sensitive out there that has a different agenda and different powers than the traditional Sith -- or does that just make him a Sith?

Darth Archimage, Jun 23, 2013

#3359

Jedi Merkurian likes this.
Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films Staff Member Manager

Registered:

Oct 31, 2012

darklordoftech said: ↑

Darth Chiznuk said: ↑

darklordoftech said: ↑

Darth Chiznuk said: ↑

darklordoftech said: ↑

I wonder what you have in mind. An evil lightsider? A non-Sith darksider? (I'm cool with both.)
Click to expand...

Well when I think of the unresolved threads left over from ROTJ (namely the restoration of the Republic and the Jedi Order) I try to think of what type of villain that we haven't seen before could cause our heroes the most trouble in accomplishing their goals. How about a character who lived through the tumultuous events of the PT and OT and one whose views were shaped by them. I'm thinking a non Force sensitive politician who believes the Jedi and Sith were equally responsible for the fall of the Republic and will do anything to prevent something like that from ever happening again. Of course he wouldn't be above using Force users for his own nefarious goals so we would have our lightsaber duels. I'm drawn to a villain like this because it just feels like such a natural outcome of everything that came before and would give us a view of the Jedi post-ROTJ that we haven't seen yet.
Click to expand...

Very true. Then I suppose we would have evil lightsiders, because the Dark Side involves hatred, not just evil.
Click to expand...

Well, when I mentioned him using Force users I didn't mean Jedi or Sith. Actually, what I was thinking is that he would be in charge of a secret program that was indoctrinating young Force users to become soldiers or something. This would of course be part of his plan to wipe them all out but I haven't thought it all out.
Click to expand...

I never said otherwise.
Click to expand...

I misinterpretated what you were saying. My apologies.

Darth Chiznuk , Jun 23, 2013

#3360

Jedi Merkurian and darklordoftech like this.
darklordoftech Force Ghost

Registered:

Sep 30, 2012

Darth Archimage said: ↑

Summer Dreamer said: ↑

It wouldn't make sense to have a non-Sith darksider. What's the difference, besides the name?

It has to either be Sith, or something entirely new.
Click to expand...

I think that depends on what you mean by "non-Sith darksider"

Couldn't there be a bad force-sensitive out there that has a different agenda and different powers than the traditional Sith -- or does that just make him a Sith?
Click to expand...

See my post. Sith is a Dark Side cult (in the movies). Unless they go with the EU Sith meaning, what you suggested would definitely NOT be a Sith. Darth Archimage

darklordoftech, Jun 23, 2013

#3361
rocknroll41 Jedi Master

Registered:

May 28, 2013

Here's my ideas of worthy new villains:

1.Have Luke's Jedi Order come to an extreme disagreement and therefore be split into two (kinda like the Marvel Civil War from the comics).
2.Have insane clones be made of the Jedi order (an echo to Thrawn trilogy).
3.Bring back the original red Sith from the Old Republic era an make it so that Anakin's prophecy didn't really apply to them.

rocknroll41, Jun 23, 2013

#3362
Darth_Pevra Chosen One

Registered:

May 21, 2008

Force Smuggler said: ↑

Voldemort wanted to control the Wizarding World by gaining control via Pure-Bloods and terror strikes.
Plagueis could attempt to gain control of the galaxy by manipulating the Force to weaken an enemy or create an army of force monsters.

Besides Voldemort was an arrogant character. Plagueis didn't seem like that to me.
Click to expand...

He was arrogant enough to think he could and should rule the entire galaxy.

Darth_Pevra, Jun 23, 2013

#3363
Darth Claire Force Ghost

Registered:

Dec 21, 2012

Man....I wont want to be on this thread if they say Plagueis ISNT the villain. Then again...something tells me that even if Disney said he isn't the villain and the actual villain looks nothing like Plagueis and his backstory doesn't fit *like too young, different origin, ect* people will STILL speculate that he might be Plagueis in disguise or that Plagueis is somewhere behind the scenes controlling every single thing. I just see this Plagueis debate not ending any time soon even if he never shows up in the movies and no reference is ever given to him in the sequel trilogy

Darth Claire, Jun 23, 2013

#3364

Darth_Pevra, Darth Archimage, Darth Chiznuk and 1 other person like this.
darklordoftech Force Ghost

Registered:

Sep 30, 2012

Darth Claire said: ↑

Man....I wont want to be on this thread if they say Plagueis ISNT the villain. Then again...something tells me that even if Disney said he isn't the villain and the actual villain looks nothing like Plagueis and his backstory doesn't fit *like too young, different origin, ect* people will STILL speculate that he might be Plagueis in disguise or that Plagueis is somewhere behind the scenes controlling every single thing. I just see this Plagueis debate not ending any time soon even if he never shows up in the movies and no reference is ever given to him in the sequel trilogy
Click to expand...

I'd say that such speculation would be 100% reasonable as long as the Saga continues.

darklordoftech, Jun 23, 2013

#3365

Darth Claire likes this.
Darth Claire Force Ghost

Registered:

Dec 21, 2012

darklordoftech said: ↑

Darth Claire said: ↑

Man....I wont want to be on this thread if they say Plagueis ISNT the villain. Then again...something tells me that even if Disney said he isn't the villain and the actual villain looks nothing like Plagueis and his backstory doesn't fit *like too young, different origin, ect* people will STILL speculate that he might be Plagueis in disguise or that Plagueis is somewhere behind the scenes controlling every single thing. I just see this Plagueis debate not ending any time soon even if he never shows up in the movies and no reference is ever given to him in the sequel trilogy
Click to expand...

I'd say that such speculation would be 100% reasonable as long as the Saga continues.
Click to expand...

Totally. It's going to be entertaining to watch cause if this "pre announcement villain" talk is insane, imagine how crazy it will get when people start saying events from the sequel trilogy were caused by him (like "Luke was killed by that villain BECAUSE Plagueis was off somewhere manipulating Luke's mind to make him weaker") Its going to be glorious to watch the speculation

Darth Claire, Jun 23, 2013

#3366

darklordoftech likes this.
Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films Staff Member Manager

Registered:

Oct 31, 2012

Darth Claire said: ↑

Man....I wont want to be on this thread if they say Plagueis ISNT the villain. Then again...something tells me that even if Disney said he isn't the villain and the actual villain looks nothing like Plagueis and his backstory doesn't fit *like too young, different origin, ect* people will STILL speculate that he might be Plagueis in disguise or that Plagueis is somewhere behind the scenes controlling every single thing. I just see this Plagueis debate not ending any time soon even if he never shows up in the movies and no reference is ever given to him in the sequel trilogy
Click to expand...

Yep. It looks like the Plagueis debate will be very similar to the whole clone Sidious debate during the PT. We probably won't have an answer until after Episode IX and even after the ST ends if Plagueis isn't the villain I can still see some arguing that he'll show up in the SST. Point is I don't see an end to this debate for a very long time.

Darth Chiznuk , Jun 23, 2013

#3367

darklordoftech likes this.
darklordoftech Force Ghost

Registered:

Sep 30, 2012

Darth Chiznuk said: ↑

clone Sidious debate during the PT
Click to expand...

Somebody else who remembers that!

darklordoftech, Jun 23, 2013

#3368

Jedi Merkurian and Darth Chiznuk like this.
Darth Claire Force Ghost

Registered:

Dec 21, 2012

Darth Chiznuk said: ↑

Darth Claire said: ↑

Man....I wont want to be on this thread if they say Plagueis ISNT the villain. Then again...something tells me that even if Disney said he isn't the villain and the actual villain looks nothing like Plagueis and his backstory doesn't fit *like too young, different origin, ect* people will STILL speculate that he might be Plagueis in disguise or that Plagueis is somewhere behind the scenes controlling every single thing. I just see this Plagueis debate not ending any time soon even if he never shows up in the movies and no reference is ever given to him in the sequel trilogy
Click to expand...

Yep. It looks like the Plagueis debate will be very similar to the whole clone Sidious debate during the PT. We probably won't have an answer until after Episode IX and even after the ST ends if Plagueis isn't the villain I can still see some arguing that he'll show up in the SST. Point is I don't see an end to this debate for a very long time.
Click to expand...

Yep. I doubt even Lucas himself coming out and saying "Sorry...its a new villain never seen on screen or in the EU before" would convince people. We'll probably get "But Plagueis was never seen on screen SO THERE IS STILL A CHANCE". I also can't wait for the "Blame Game" if we get to acceptance stage. I swear to god if I see one "Well obviously Lucas wanted Plagueis to be the villain but the evil JJ Abrams said no so thats why its this new villain" I might die a little inside.

Darth Claire, Jun 23, 2013

#3369

Darth Chiznuk and darklordoftech like this.
Force Smuggler Force Ghost

Registered:

Sep 2, 2012

I'm firmly in the Darth Plagueis will be the villain of the ST camp but won't be let down by the ST if he isn't the villain. To me it makes logical sense.

Force Smuggler, Jun 23, 2013

#3370

Dra--- and darklordoftech like this.
Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films Staff Member Manager

Registered:

Oct 31, 2012

I'm open to anything except a clone of Palpatine or Vader (which would be the stupidest thing they could do and would make me walk out of the theater in disgust!) I just firmly believe that it will be something unexpected and probably very original. But if it is Plagueis I'll give it a shot and I hope Lucas/Arndt will be able to convince me.

Darth Chiznuk , Jun 23, 2013

#3371

darklordoftech likes this.
Ghost Chosen One

Registered:

Oct 13, 2003

darklordoftech said: ↑

Summer Dreamer said: ↑

It wouldn't make sense to have a non-Sith darksider. What's the difference, besides the name?

It has to either be Sith, or something entirely new.
Click to expand...

If darksiders are anti-semites, Sith are Nazis. I'd be happy to discuss it at http://boards.theforce.net/forums/star-wars-saga-in-depth.10456/ .
Click to expand...

But that's my point. Any darksiders who aren't Sith would just be a step down from Sith... and why would the ST have an enemy that's like the Sith, but not as evil/powerful?

Ghost, Jun 23, 2013

#3372
darklordoftech Force Ghost

Registered:

Sep 30, 2012

Summer Dreamer said: ↑

darklordoftech said: ↑

Summer Dreamer said: ↑

It wouldn't make sense to have a non-Sith darksider. What's the difference, besides the name?

It has to either be Sith, or something entirely new.
Click to expand...

If darksiders are anti-semites, Sith are Nazis. I'd be happy to discuss it at http://boards.theforce.net/forums/star-wars-saga-in-depth.10456/ .
Click to expand...

But that's my point. Any darksiders who aren't Sith would just be a step down from Sith... and why would the ST have an enemy that's like the Sith, but not as evil/powerful?
Click to expand...

The ST could introduce something even worse. Sith are Nazis as far as I-VI go, but the ST could introduce a new "Nazis".

darklordoftech, Jun 23, 2013

#3373
A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service Staff Member Administrator

Registered:

Aug 19, 2003

That is the struggle in finding the right villain. Moreso, I think, than even a "cool" design aesthetic or even the writing. Simply not outshining Palpatine, but not underselling the new villain, either.

A Chorus of Disapproval , Jun 23, 2013

#3374

Summer Dreamer and Darth Chiznuk like this.
Ghost Chosen One

Registered:

Oct 13, 2003

darklordoftech said: ↑

The ST could introduce something even worse. Sith are Nazis as far as I-VI go, but the ST could introduce a new "Nazis".
Click to expand...

But what would that even look like?

And why shouldn't they be called Sith?

Ghost, Jun 23, 2013

#3375

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