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TFA Who's The Baddie?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by fishtailsam, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    There's an interesting essay on speciesism (and sexism) in the Empire here:

    http://web.archive.org/web/20110722011401/http://www.domuspublica.net/peculiar_institutions.html

    which suggests that there's lots of evidence for Palpatine's minions being so- but not necessarily the Empire in general.

    The sources most overt about Palpatine personally being speciesist, are Zahn novels.
     
  2. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Life creates the force, lets it grow, according to Yoda. Therefore, despite various EU claims, the dark side of the force is absolutely natural, just like fear, hate, aggression, etc.
     
  3. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Palpatine does tell us that it allows one to access unnatural abilities, though.
     
    Dra--- and Sean Sinclair like this.
  4. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Agreed. Good and evil are natural to existence. But certain aspects fall under each one of these categories and balancing them out against one another is part of a theme in Star Wars. In order to create a more perfect, crystalized story, I would think a writer would balance the two. The Jedi may now have attachments, reformed after years of theological misinterpretation of the Will of the Force. The Jedi have children and families that make life meaningful and purposeful. Sidious, if he were to return, would find a way to cheat death, destroy life, create beings who should be dead, but are unnaturally kept alive, Clone life. These things are diametrically opposed to the good in life or the Force.

    Hitler would be an interesting analogy to Sidious/Palpatine. A personality so narcissistic and sexually repressed, arrogant and selfish, never fathered children. Actually, he may have been sterile, but it informs Hitler's story. Sidious may be sterile, after the fight with Windu. Who knows, if Palpatine or Hitler had had children, maybe they would have found that they truly loved someone or something in this life, besides themselves and their power and glorification.

    I don't know what's going to happen, obviously, I just can't imagine a person as evil as Sidious being connected to offspring naturally. Who's to say that a son/daughter of sidious would be bad. They may be good and it opens Sidious up to being redeemed, not unlike Vader.

    DId Satan have children?
    God had Jesus. Depending on what you believe. I'm looking at this in Mythological terms, of course.
     
  5. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Triclops springs to mind. Palpatine saw him as a threat- someone who might grow to the point of being able to replace him- and had him locked away.

    He turned out to be pacifistic.
     
    darklordoftech likes this.
  6. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    The force can never be unnatural imo, even the dark side. But there are some animals who are capable of rising from a death-like state with zero brain activities (frozen frogs...). Therefore, resurrection from the dead is not out of the picture, even if I hate the idea because of story reasons.

    Stalin had kids but it sure didn't help. Psychopaths lack the ability to feel empathy. They are barely sentient (as I consider empathy an important part of sentience). If they father a child, they won't suddenly soften up because their brain is still crippled. So if Palpatine ever sired a child, I doubt he would have had any feelings for it.
     
  7. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2013
    The will of the force = natural
    Perversion of the force = unnatural.
     
  8. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Yes, and the dark side is part of the force. So, it causes evil, but is decidedly not unnatural.

    Unnatural would be anti-force like Darth Nihilus or the Yuuzhan Vong. They are cut off from it and therefore not connected with all other living beings.
     
  9. ScorpionJedi

    ScorpionJedi Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Exactly, the Yuuzhan Vong are a totally original villain not like some random Sith or some Jedi who decided to go rogue and attempt to take over the galaxy only to be thwarted by the protagonist in the end. These are aliens who are just hell bent on destruction and could give Disney a potential gold mine as:

    a)They challenge the audience's perception of the Star Wars galaxy as the whole extragalactic origin could expand horizons by a lot.

    b) Stemming off a), the whole "immunity to the Force, Lightsabers and blasters" would really raise some eyebrows and attract a lot of attention. Imagine in a teaser trailer we see a Jedi Knight attempt to engage a Vong warrior and tries to chop a limb off with their Lightsaber only to be confounded that their Lightsaber has no effect on them. The general audience(people who somewhat know Star Wars but has little to no knowledge of the EU) currently believes holding a Lightsaber and skill with the Force immediately guarantees you the ultimate weapon against every bad guy you face. I say let's challenge that notion.

    c)One of the main themes about the OT people liked is the whole "ragtag group of unique individuals who all journey on quest to beat the big seemingly unstoppable villain". The Vong perfectly provides a new definition of unstoppable. Carry that over and we have something cool here.
     
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  10. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    I know there's been biopunk with the gungans, but I don't feel like it is a style that would fit in with the rest of Star Wars.

    The force kryptonite and lightsaber resistant battlesnakes and unstoppable critters of DOOM are also not something that we should ever see on the big screen. I am all for showing the Jedi as fallible, but there got to be better ways than that.
     
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  11. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2002
    I never said the Jedi don't have a libido. What I said was, I don't think the Sith have one. I believe that the power of the dark side does many things to someone who's consumed by it, and one of the things it does do is make someone lose their libido. All they're concerned about is power and dominion over others. Thats all they care about, and pretty much, that's all that gets them off.

    But that's just my theory.
     
  12. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    Ah, but that's not true.

    Vader: We will bring order to the galaxy.
    Maul: We will have our revenge.
    Dooku: Some stuff about how the republic is bad.

    Sith do often care about power but it is definitely not the only thing they can care about.
     
  13. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    This is also true of most rapists.
     
  14. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2002
    Let's not go there, shall we? Lol
     
  15. ScorpionJedi

    ScorpionJedi Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Well they could make a better version of the Vong. They could uncanonize the Vong we know and replace them with another version which works better for the screen while still keeping the important elements. They could even add new features to make them more badass.
     
    Darth_Pevra likes this.
  16. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Alright. Just dispelling the myth that being married to power = asexuality.
     
  17. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2002
    It's not the same thing. We're talking about cosmic energies; not a mentally defective mind.

    Sigh. It's funny how some people think that the use of the dark side isn't something that corrupts the mind and therefore controls that person's actions as if he was completely under its power. Yeah, at first, that person makes the choice and allow it to consume him or her so they can use its power. But once they cross that threshold, there's no turning back, and that's when they're forever enslaved to the dark side. It took a lot for Anakin to break those chains, but only because he was the Chosen One was he able to do that, I guess.
     
  18. MiamiJedi

    MiamiJedi Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2013
    The primary baddie is Palpatine, of course!
    Secondary baddies are Boba Fett and all the Bounty Hunters we enjoyed as Kenner action figures..
     
  19. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Four Time PT Trivia Champ/GOAT/New Films Manager star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Your Emperor's dead, son. Accept it.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    And Fett is being digested in the sarlacc.
     
  21. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Which means they aren't dead.
     
  22. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    fixed
     
  23. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Four Time PT Trivia Champ/GOAT/New Films Manager star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Wait, being dead means you're not dead? :confused: You'll have to explain that to me because as far as I know SW isn't the bizarro world.
     
  24. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    fixed
     
  25. ThatsNoPloKoon

    ThatsNoPloKoon Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2013
    I think it depends on the Sith rather than it being every Sith. I can't imagine Palpatine as being anything other than asexual and unconcerned with stuff like that but Anakin's love for Padme never wavered in all the time he was consumed by the dark side. The Jedi are the one's who deny love not the Sith. Love and attraction are powerful emotions and the Sith are all about using your emotions to fuel your power.
     
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