Speculation Who's The Baddie?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by fishtailsam, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    It seems like people have given up the Plagueis idea.
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  2. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 7
    The idea of us stalking Kitster is easily the single most interesting proposal anyone has offered in this particular forum.
  3. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    Nah. They've just already said everything that there is to be said about Plagueis.
  4. Immortiss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 4
    He's a very clean Old Muun.
    Last edited by Immortiss, Nov 25, 2013
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  5. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 4
    When you put it like this, yes.

    And especially if you add some giallo music from Argento's Suspiria or Deep Red.

    The JCF dons a black giallo glove, taking on a 1st-person POV. We hear the sound of our heavy breathing as we peak through Kitster's window, where he is, of course, undressing next to a scary looking doll.
  6. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    Kitster and Wald had no point in TPM. It's like Lucas did some of his friends a favor and let them be in the movie. It seemed strange that they were just hanging around like that. I mean, were they slaves of Watto too, or were they poor and homeless street urchins? I wish they would have mentioned something about it, because they were two of the most pointless characters to ever be in a Star Wars movie.
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  7. Darth PJ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2013
    star 4
    One assumes they were slaves too given they seemed to inhabit the 'slave quarters'. Not sure why their inclusion in TPM is so contentious... it was just a way of showing that Anakin had a life (no matter how impoverished) with friends and family. He left that life behind...
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  8. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    The TPM novelization made no mention of Kitster and Wald being slaves. I think they were just local children who were friends with Anakin. And I think it was not only to show the life he left behind, but also just a way to humanize him a bit and further emphasize his good nature by showing that he does in fact have friends.
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  9. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    So, to bring a bit of fresh air into this thread.

    What if the new villain were an old imperial like General Veers, who breathed and lived for the Empire, but never understood or respected the mystical force his commander wielded? An atheist, so to speak. What if he got disillusioned about the Empire after the war ended, but still loved it? And what if he then found out he had a force potential?

    I think he could be pretty cool to see a villain (or hero) torn between materialism and the spirituality of the force, between believing in military might and the might of the dark side. I don't think everyone who discovered a force ability would be as accepting of it as Luke Skywalker. And internal conflict is often what makes a villain interesting.

    Magneto, Michael Corleone and Darth Vader are examples.
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  10. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 4
    Are you saying he would be in the Force closet? Would he use his power, or would he hate himself?
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  11. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I don't know. There are several possible scenarios.

    If he is in a force closet he isn't as powerful and threatening as he would be with force powers. But maybe he develops his powers over the course of the trilogy, becomes more accepting of it?

    Maybe his hatred for the republic and the Jedi is so great that he would use the force despite hating it, treating it like a hammer, a tool, nothing more.

    And maybe he does hate himself for being "tainted" by the same force the Jedi use.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Nov 26, 2013
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  12. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 4
    I think the idea has a lot of potential, but for some reason Imperials strike me as being a bit threadbare, even with force powers -- at least for the main bad. Something like this would work, I think, if the Imperial was an apprentice or a minor villain, or perhaps someone being used by someone more powerful. Still, I like this idea a lot more than Thrawn the Art Critic. ;)

    My favorite non-Palp or Plagueis idea is still some alien race similar to the Sith Purebloods (or them -- no I don't care if EU says the Purebloods are extinct), who have been wronged by the Jedi and Republic somehow, blurring the lines between rigid binary views of right and wrong, light and dark.

    Or, if we must deal with an Imperial Remnant of some kind, I want a grey Jedi force. Neither Sith nor Jedi, some kind of Imperial Guard, similar to what we've seen in EU (although I've never read that story myself), but now a contemporary threat. What makes them grey Jedi is that they don't serve the dark or light sides of the of the Force, but the orders of the Imperial military. So they follow orders instead of their own selfish desires.
  13. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    Not at all. It's just that everything that can be said at this point as been put on the table. We are either right or wrong. Only time and leaks will tell.

    On the other hand, I have yet to hear a sensible, story based suggestion that doesn't come from want versus observation.

    The Plagueis theory comes from his introduction to the story, established elements, as well as the history of changes and adjustments behind the scenes over the course of the Saga's production. Remember that this is a continuation of the story, not a reboot or new storyline. It makes sense should you choose to believe it.

    Everything else is "I want", which is fine, but in no way disqualifies the Plagueis theory.

    This thread is titled "Who's the Baddie?", not "Who Do You Want the Baddie to Be?", or "Make Up a Baddie". I take that as asking us to try to figure out who the baddie will be based on what we know, not just to express what we think would be cool, or what we might want to happen.

    That said: Plagueis until I hear something that fits better.

    OK....... Now everything has been put on the table. :cool:
  14. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    This is only my theory, mind you, but if he is still alive, then the mention of Plagueis' private funeral is the key to it all.
  15. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Something like the Imperial Knights from the Legacy comics?

    While they follow the Emperor's orders- part of their credo involves executing him if he turns to the dark side and trying to redeem him becomes impractical.
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  16. Darth PJ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2013
    star 4
    I still suspect it will be Khan... ;)
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  17. Immortiss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2013
    star 4
    I couldn't agree more and couldn't say it better. Not only does Plagueis create a new and interesting problem for the ST heroes, but he also provides a legit purpose, reason and justification for a ST. Without him it might look like a trilogy pasted on to the end of the saga. He provides a loop hole of sorts to avoid disqualification of the prophecy, or what came before. His appearance can be explained and doesn't negate it unnecessarily.
  18. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Are you being serious?

    Plagueis is in no way a direct continuation of the plot.

    1) He is dead
    2) When he was introduced he was a plot device
    3) He has zero connection to Han, Luke and Leia or the new protagonists
    4) He had nothing to do with the war against the empire
    5) He had nothing to do with the clone wars (on screen)
    6) He has no connection to the new republic, Mon Mothma and such

    Let me tell you who has more to do with the plot of the saga:

    Any Imperial
    Any secret apprentice
    Any order 66 surviving Jedi turned evil

    "Who do you want the baddy to be?" is exactly what you are doing now.

    Whoever is the villain must have ambition, vision and should strive a greatness. It is not enough for our ex-Imperial to rebuild the Empire, no, he should strive to build his own dictatorship, a different one without the flaws of the old regime.
    And if he is smart, a good strategist, he would turn attention to the force users. Because once he controls them, he will be free to execute whatever plans he has.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Nov 26, 2013
  19. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 4
    There is some connection there.........what was it.........oh yeah, he created Luke and Leia's father.

    I don't think a 90+ year old Mon Mothma will be in the ST.
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  20. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    That's not movie-canon.

    And even then "I'm your granddaddy" wouldn't really be shocking at this point.

    Well no, I was talking about connections here.
  21. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 4
    I think it is pretty much movie cannon. Anakin was possibly conceived by the midis, Plagueis could create life by manipulating the midis, RM confirmed on the DVD commentary.

    It wouldn't be shocking to the audience, but what about the characters? How would a powerful sith like that impact the characters?
    Last edited by T-R-, Nov 26, 2013
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  22. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Even then. Picture following scenario.

    Leia and Luke find out that Plagueis created their father.

    What would be their reaction?

    They'd pity their father for a couple minutes. Then they destroy P like any other Sith. There won't be any reason to become affected by this news, no reason to become emotional.

    Luke & Leia dealt with their father, Luke's childhood hero, being their archenemy. Plagueis has nothing on that. Absolutely nothing.

    Why should the Skywalkers care? Why should the audience care?

    No reason.

    Plagueis would go down as a rather unremarkable typical pop-culture villain who is mostly recognized for his looks.

    And btw., only hardcore fans watch the dvd-commentary.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Nov 26, 2013
  23. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 4
    I disagree. I think it would be quite impactful if Luke found out his dad was created by the sith. What if he starts manipulating the new generation of Skywalkers, or has created other Sith using this power.

    Plus his quest for immortality.

    Has more impact than a random imperial officer or rebel that is struggling for power with the OT3.
  24. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Plagueis has been suggested, Palpatine has been suggested- what about both?

    With Plagueis having achieved the secret of "cheating death" and Palpatine learning it just before RoTJ, the two would team up, and return from the netherworld as a dynamic duo.
  25. Darth PJ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2013
    star 4
    I think the best possible antagonist is someone/something that can span all 9 films. I don't particularly care if it's Plagueis, Bane, Palpatine or other... but I think the risk they run by using an imperial or 'just another' sith is that it will be underwhelming. I don't expect any villain to be as iconic as either Vader or Palpatine... but having the new villain being the one who trained Palpatine or the one who instigated Anakin's conception etc. at least gives the villain some narrative potential to outdo what went before...