Speculation Who's The Baddie?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by fishtailsam, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    I for one am hoping for (1) a barbarian horde, maybe the Mandalorians, (2) a Jedi civil war, and (3) perhaps some Mortis-type people (who may or may not be Whills).
    Darth kRud likes this.
  2. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Thats what Palpatine did, used deception and intelligence rather than brute force. What sort of villain? Details. Does he/she wield a light saber? Use the dark side of the force? Have some Jedi killing weapon we haven't seen?

    The Star Wars fans who want to see some new series with Jedi chasing around non dark side of the force users baffle me. May as well call it Star Treck and introduce some lame klingon vs Republic nonsense. Hell, why even have Jedi for that matter?
    Darth_Quintonis likes this.
  3. K'Kruhk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2011
    star 3
    No, it was in a manner that tells us that he's dead.

    Possibly a Dark Jedi. The galaxy is huge, the Sith aren't the only villains in it.
  4. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    I'm all for that, have even suggested it in other threads but I'd like to see a more philosophical approach, as in, a barbarian horde, maybe the Mandalorians being used to effect a Sith or darkside agenda rather than a struggle for physical/economic/political domination of the Galaxy.

    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/plagueis-witches-of-dathomir-nightsisters.50007546/

    ^ This isn't something I NEED to see but just a suggestion :) Not so much focusing on any one possibility other than having the villain holding a deeper agenda other than domination for the sake of domination or plunder or greed.
    Last edited by Darth kRud, Dec 18, 2012
  5. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

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    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    No Sith Ghosts, no resurrecting dead EU characters either.

    An original story this would not be, not to mention a continuity ****-up if done badly.
  6. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    That's a cool thread; I'm sorry I missed it! Anyway I'm not a fan of bringing back the Sith, unless it were done in a way that wouldn't invalidate the 6-movie arc as it is (if that requires a retcon, so be it). IMO the Mortis people, or people like them (Are they Whills? Are they "embodiments" of the Force?) might be interesting antagonists for Force users.

    But, of course, we'll see... maybe in the New Year video, or maybe in January we'll get some clues as to the setting of the story. Then we'll be able to "constrain" our speculating :)
    Darth kRud likes this.
  7. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

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    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    You just answered your own question. Luke survived thus there is someone to carry on the Jedi teachings. The Sith died out with Palpatine and Vader. No one is left to carry on after them.
    Last edited by Darth Chiznuk, Dec 18, 2012
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  8. Palpatine2016 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 3
    Definitely some good points here. I wouldn't be opposed to the idea if it's done like this.
    Sedrin Celis and Darth_Quintonis like this.
  9. Lord Optimus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2011
    star 2
    Just because Plagueis told Sidious he could save others from death but not himself, doesn't make it true. The Sith are known liars, plus teaching your apprentice to become as powerful or more powerful than yourself doesn't seem like something the Sith would do. Is it that hard to believe that the Sith can become force ghosts too, but instead of guiding and mentoring like the Jedi, maybe they manipulate or posses the force sensitive.

    Darth Plagueis makes sense to me for a number of reasons

    1. He could be the reason balance is not yet brought to the force. If the Sith are destroyed and balance is brought to the force, I don't see a reason in calling it Episodes 7-9. Lets save non force using villains for the spin off movies.

    2. It's a way to bring back the Sith without corny cloning or time travel.

    3. It's a way to bring back the Sith without a completely new and unknown Sith just appearing out of nowhere, like hey I know you destroyed the only 2 Sith in the galaxy and thought you brought balance to the force, but I trained myself to become a Sith. It's pretty easy actually, anyone can do it at anytime so you'll never bring balance to the force.

    4. Plagueis was barely mentioned for like two minutes in ROTS, if you believe the movies to be the only cannon then we don't even know what he looks like. He could be something familiar and completely new at the same time.

    5. We wouldn't have a Jedi turn bad again, we've already done that twice with Anakin and Dooku.
    Last edited by DarthOptimusPrime, Dec 18, 2012
  10. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Just like Obi-Wan. Palpatine is only labeled a liar because of being the villain, yet nothing he said up to that point was a lie.
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  11. darthzac14 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 3
    No thinking about it, we'd have to see how The Old Republic plays out before we see anything about the Red-skinned true sith returning.
  12. K'Kruhk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2011
    star 3
    So now the Sith lie all the time? No, look at Palpatine's face when he's telling the story. Look at the glee, he's so happy that he killed Plaguies. The novel and Darth Plaguies outright state and show us that he is dead and that it was true he couldn't save himself. Do you really think when Lucas was writing that script that he had a backstory survival for Plaguies?

    1. The Prophecy of the Chosen One was created long before the character of Darth Plaguies even existed. So no. You do realise that in a galaxy filled with trillions of beings, the Sith are not the only villains?

    2. Why would we want to bring anybody back from the dead? Leave the dead characters alone. We don't need the old Sith brought back. Terrible idea.

    3. Again, why do we need the Sith brought back? We don't. Out of nowhere? Darth Maul was a completely new and unknown Sith who appeared to us out of nowhere, we didn't know anything about him in TPM except that he was Sidious' apprentice. Was that a terrible? No.

    4. *Canon. Does it matter what he looks like? All we needed to know about him was explained in ROTS. Anyway, Lucas had said that Plaguies was a Muun.

    5. A Jedi turning to the dark side again is better than resurrecting a dead character.
    Jedi Merkurian and Darth Chiznuk like this.
  13. JoeyArnold Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 3
    In the next film, the new jedi order fights aliens who use both the light and dark side of the force...... what if using both sides of the force is the better way to go and luke has to realize that
  14. Lord Optimus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2011
    star 2
    I was more referring to Yoda's quote about dark siders creating lies and mistrust when referring to Dooku, so I probably should have said dark siders and not Sith. I also was talking about Plagueis lying about what knew about cheating death, not Sidious lying.
  15. JoeyArnold Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 3
    Sidious & Vader were the last two sith in the universe? No. that is an assumption
    Last edited by JoeyArnold, Dec 18, 2012
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  16. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Well, the same goes for Plagueis: he would have been capable of lying, but even lightsiders are capable of lying. And it's possible that Sidious is claiming Plagueis had the power because he saw Plagueis use it with his own eyes... [face_whistling]
  17. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

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    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    I can't speak for anyone else advocating for the Sith to remain extinct for the ST but I am definitely not hoping for Jedi hunting down bounty hunters or anything of the sort. I'm just asking, with a little creativity is it so hard to see the writers coming up with an interesting new set of Force users. They don't have to be Sith or Jedi turned Sith or Dark Jedi or anything we have ever heard of. They can be completely new and have their own agendas. Why do we have to rehash the Sith instead of having new interesting characters who we have no preconceived notions about? Perhaps they don't see a distinction between light side and dark side but instead see both the Sith and Jedi as enemies of the Force and the galaxy. Anyway, spiel finished.
  18. JoeyArnold Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 3
    Sith is not a family name. Sith is not that specific. In Star Wars, a sith is more the word used for "The ultimate bad guys for the movies."
  19. Lord Optimus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2011
    star 2
    I don't think you're really understanding what I'm saying, if Plagueis knew how to become a force ghost, he could be cheating death from a certain point of view, without technically being brought back from the dead. I believe Sidious killed Plagueis, I'm saying Plagueis could have been lying about what he knew about cheating death. If he is still training Sith, he would have to be destroyed somehow for balance to be brought to the force, never said anything about him predating the Prophecy.

    Darth Maul was trained by Sidious so I wouldn't say he came out of nowhere, if there is a Sith in Episode VII who would have trained him, Vader and Sidious are dead. Or was there secretly more Sith out there for over 1000 years that had nothing to do with Plagueis/Sidious/Maul/Tyranus/Vader.

    Yea there are many other villains out there in the galaxy, no doubt about it. Lets have 3 movies without lightsaber battles, see how well that will sit with fans.

    Another Jedi gone bad would be better than having a non force using villain, if you want to see that happen for the third time.
    Ryus likes this.
  20. IG_2000 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2008
    star 4
    Captain Needa comes back to life and takes revenge on the Skywalker family
  21. Lord Optimus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2011
    star 2
    I guess Sidious or Vader could have said to hell with the rule of two and secretly trained an apprentice before their deaths in ROTJ. I could see Sidious with a secret aprrentice before Vader though. If it was Vader I guess he just forgot to say anything about it to Luke before he died, and then failed to mention anything about it to Yoda or Obi Wan when he became a force ghost.
  22. Poor Greedo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 2
    wouldn't any force sensitive person, who fell towards the darkside, be considered a Sith? im just wondering these points
  23. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

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    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    No, the Sith are just the main sect of dark side users. There are other dark side groups in the EU that are not considered Sith. But I guess if we're talking about the general movie-going public I would say they probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a Sith and any other dark side user and that's why I advocate that they don't make any of these groups a part of the ST.
    K'Kruhk and PoorGreedo like this.
  24. agentkrycek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 2
    If the general public can tell Mother Talzin, Pong Krell and The Son aren't Sith Lords in the Clone Wars TV series, they should have no problem doing the same for the movies.
    Ryus likes this.
  25. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

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    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    Who? I don't watch TCW very much so I don't know these names very well. I've heard of Mother Talzin and The Son but I have no clue who Pong Krell is. Please enlighten.
    Last edited by Darth Chiznuk, Dec 18, 2012