ST Who's The Baddie?

Again, there'a several conficts throughout both the Saga and real life in which the sides don't have that genocidal obsession.

 

The Sith apprentice is deceptive (like Palp), the Padawan doesn't know she is Sith, they have an affair, the Padawan breaks the no attachment rules and falls in love with her (like you know who); she breaks all Sith rules and falls in love with him too; the Sith master is like, "Kill him!!" But she doesn't want to, she has fallen for him. Lots of conflict. OK, that probably wouldn't work, but you never know what kind of big twist could be coming.

 

Lee_

Now your talking!

Gene Simmons is the ST villain.

 

I am sure Lucas had a villain in his story, but I think there is a decent chance of some pretty significant alteration. Arndt batted it around, JJ and Kasdan are batting it around. It COULD end up drastically different. I think speculation on it is fun, but by no means safe or reliable.

I don't know how his acting chops are these days, but I think in all seriousness that his stage presence is the kind that is a good SW villain.

 

Are you talking about them changing the villain all together in in terms of who it actually is, or do you mean what the villain does or is after?

I am sure Gene's acting chops are not any better than they ever were....... He is surely best in character on stage.

 

I think it could be any or all of the above. The original write for ESB, if you ever read it, was WILDLY different than the movie. This won't be that different, but I could see them changing (for example) one of the two Sith to a different character, or drastically changing how the story goes with the same villain.

 

If so, why do you think they would make such changes?

 

Cuz JJ says so. I hear he likes to do things his own way. I am sure KK is placing some limitation on him, and the changes are heavily negotiated, but basically because he can, and likes some things better than others. I'm sure he has his own vision for what he is directing.

 

That's so vague I have no idea what you're talking about. You seem to be saying the Sith will no longer care about the Jedi. Why?

Lee_:

The Romeo and Juliet plot. Been there, done that. A million times.

 

Such strawman arguments. Nute Gunray didn't have any desire for a genocide against the people of Naboo but was still the villain of TPM (along with Sidious, of course).

 

Strawman? I'm asking you to get more specific. It's one thing to throw ideas out, but they have to at least make sense.

Why would the Sith no longer care about the Jedi? Do you have an answer or just some vague response?

 

Dismissing things you don't like as vague is a strawman argument.

 

Haha, that's absolutely not true. Vague means you're not doing due diligence to details or logic. Yet.

Right now your idea doesn't make a lick of sense. You could change that by being more specific.

By the way, people who don't understand logic shouldn't pretend that they do.

 

I would have to write out the whole story to answer these questions, especially how this all ties in with SW- but I will say that it is nothing like Conan; Conan was just a simple and dumb fighter (although a gifted one); he feared special powers (the one in the comic book I mean), he didn't have them; that is entirely different. This would be a far less simplistic story than that. The reason it would be somewhere remote/unusual is that you can really build something original and make the bad guy unique with; with their culture/surroundings. I was giving examples of things to make an explanation (e.g. Anakin's mom seeing his powers), I wasn't saying it would happen that way in my story.

There are plenty of Sci Fi legends (Varley, Dick, Heinlein) who have great books that DON'T connect like you are talking about- stories that take you for a wild loop, those are some of the best there are. However, SW is more commercial/conventional, so I don't think they will take that route in Ep. 7, I was saying I would like it if they did.

 

The reason another Sith wouldn't share Palpatine's genocidal obsession is that different people have different obsessions. And that "logic" thing is yet another strawman.

 

You cut out the rest of my post, which changes what I was saying. But anyway, what I was talking about wouldn't have to go anything like Romeo and Juliet. You could pigeon hole every story with forbidden love as Romeo and Juliet, but that would be silly. SW has a thematic framework that is as much of a cliché as any movie; that doesn't mean you can't take the specifics and make it more original, in fact, that is in many ways exactly what SW does.

What is YOUR story idea?

 

You don't even understand what a strawman is. But it's funny to see you think you do. My point is totally valid. The Sith would want to destroy or fight the Jedi simply because the Jedi would try to stop them from achieving their goals. The Sith only want to destroy/defeat the Jedi because A) the Jedi want to destroy/stop them and B) for revenge. Your argument seems to be that this new Sith won't care about history. I keep asking you why, and you have no answer. It's possible that they won't care about history, but the audience would need to know why this Sith suddenly no longer wants revenge. If you don't know details like that, it means your theory is vague. Vague means a lack of details. That is certainly no strawman argument, since you could easily provide details.

As for A), you seem unwilling to engage the idea that your new non-revenge seeking Sith would have to fight the Jedi anyway. So you can take the revenge factor out potentially, true, but that would be a bizarrre narrative move because that would mean intentionally taking the personal connection out of the conflict. That doesn't seem like a good idea.

Lee_:

I don't respond to people who all cap. We all know this is the same as yelling at someone on message board forums. This is one of the reasons your posts tend to come off as antagonistic.

Anyway, my story ideas are all over the forum. And I don't value newness and originality as you do. I value appropriateness.

 

As I said, you seem to be imposing Palpatine's personality upon every single Sith. The Trade Federation fought against the people of Naboo without a desire to wipe them out. The Sith would stop caring about Palpatine's hard-on for genocide because Palpatine is dead.

 

LOL, I cap to emphasize particular words. Yelling is when you cap all letters in a sentence (e.g. I DID NOT DO THAT, YOU STOP THAT RIGHT NOW); you actually can get in trouble for that at a lot of government jobs, but not for caps on a word you are trying to emphasize or accentuate. That is just easier to do than highlight, bold or italicize. Nothing to take personally. Look at any of my posts, they almost all have it. I haven't seen any of your ideas for the story on these boards, other than brief statements about particular areas, I haven't seen any broader story outlines. I think if you are going to critique others, you should pony up yours; that's fair enough.

 

You seem to supposing that the plan for revenge was only Palpatine. Maul also said he wanted revenge. You're essentially arguing that Plagueis and Bane and all these Rule of Two Sith cared nothing for revenge against the Jedi. That seems like an outlandish argument.

Which could be true, but as I point out, such a narrative move would likely confuse the audience more than make them feel fresh.

Taking the revenge motive out doesn't stop the Jedi and Sith from fighting. So who cares?

EDIT: Lee_

I've posted 2 or 3 plot synopses in that plot thread, and probably more in the plot ideas thread. Feel free to pick them apart as you will.

Keep in mind that I'm critiquing your ideas because of the way you and others critique the Plagueis people. That's only fair right? You say you want newness, and then just bring in all these vague unoriginal ideas.

A Chorus of Disapproval: I'll take a break for a while.

 

Indeed. Now.....if Darth Elsa doesn't work then I say we go with option 2............Snow White

and have her team up with Mulan Fett


sorry I'm bored and the news drought is killing me.

 

Because Palpatine indoctrinated him.

I care.

I doubt the audience is obsessed with things staying the same.

 

Gascon will be the enemy in VII with WAC being the enemy in VIII