Speculation Who's The Baddie?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by fishtailsam, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    Hey, why should George's vision on female characters be any different than any of his other decisions that have been put through the grinder of fan "expectation." Why should women or feminists be any different? :)

    No, you're not offending anyone, but 2012 was a really rough year for women attempting to be involved in "boys" geek culture. Hoping for a change of pace in 2013. [face_peace]
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  2. GODLIKE Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2012
    star 1
    Plagueis takes control of the force itself becoming some type of god. He does crazy ****ed up **** blowing up suns and taking control of people getting in their heads. He does this by building some type of force super weapon. The first two movies focus on Plagueis trying to weaken the galaxy getting different people to cause war and stop the jedi from uniting the galaxy.
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  3. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Exactly what I've been saying! :D

    Could be a Muun, could be a new form, could be a woman, who knows.

    Plagueis being allied with the Nightsisters and the Mandalorians, as their new master, would be very interesting.

    Also, the TV show hasn't yet explained how Maul survived... maybe it was the spirit of Plagueis that saved him from death, perhaps Plagueis used Maul as a temporary host body and then scrambled Maul's mind to hide Plagueis's survival from Sidious?




    I wonder, what kind of villain Plagueis would be? Or the Big Bad, whoever it turns out to be?

    * Would it be an invader, who acts through force, to conquer the galaxy?
    * Or will it be a manipulator and deceiver, trying to out-Palpatine Palpatine?
    * Or something else?

    We know Galactic War has to be involved, some way or other...
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  4. run_luke_run Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2004
    star 3
    How about someone new, and not a rehashed villain?

    I personally like the universe with Vader dead and gone.

    Palpatine rotting in the shaft somewhere, and Darth Platypus or whatever his name is still dying in the pages of a well-written novel (I loved it, actually).

    Please, Lucas...fresh air. Let's move on and see what happens next.
    Last edited by run_luke_run, Jan 29, 2013
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  5. wookiebk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2004
    I have faith in JJ that the villain(s) will be original and likely not black and white. New era of star wars; new era of issues. OT was basically classic tale of good vs evil. These films should be about more complex issues like the jedi trying to find their place in a more liberal society without the looming threat of the sith. Kinda like the separation of church and state in the developed world.
  6. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    While that would be an interesting intro, perhaps the Republic doesn't want them involved so they stay on planets like Dagobah or Yavin IV waiting for systems to invite them to mitigate and solve problems. But ultimately there needs to be a villain.
  7. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    How is Plagueis not a NEW villain?

    There were a couple lines about him in Episode III, about how wise and powerful he was.

    And there was a recent book about him (which people who only follow the movies would have no idea about).

    Plagueis wouldn't be an old and tired villain in any way. He's brand-new, his potential has barely been tapped.


    And as I argued before, in order for the Star Wars Saga to really feel like one, there has to be some way to connect the New Big Bad to the 6 previous movies. Plagueis does it so perfectly (being the guy who trained Palpatine, and was directly or indirectly responsible for Anakin's creation, indirectly responsible for Anakin's turn to the dark side, and got Sifo-Dyas to order the Clone Army). And one of the few things moviegoers-only know about him is that he was able to cheat death... it almost seems as if Lucas planned it this way.
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  8. Poli-Sci Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2013
    star 1
    I think we can all agree that we'd like the marketing hacks to stay out of the room when Michael Arndt, JJ Abrams, and George Lucas are coming up with the characters and story for the Sequel Trilogy. :) I'd love to see a female lead for story reasons and because we haven't had much exploration of mother-daughter relations in the movies. However, if it's done solely for marketing reasons, I fear they'll mess it up.
    Kyris Cavisek likes this.
  9. Poli-Sci Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2013
    star 1
    At this point, I'd put my money on rogue Jedi or aliens.
  10. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I mean they could have another character be an apprentice to Vader or something and insert a scene somewhere in the OT of them answering to Vader. It would be easy, new character and Vader suit, plus James Earl Jones. But I have a feeling all of us would call FOUL! if they did that, so I am leaning toward Plagieus or the One Sith
  11. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I would love to see them mess with the gender roles but in Star Wars there is always the Protagonist and the Lancer, both of which are MAIN characters. Luke and Han, Qui-Gon/Anakin and Obi-Wan in the two trilogies. Leia and Padme hold the romance positions. (Leia originally for Luke before becoming romance for Han).

    Now just for example sake (doesn't have to happen) I am going to use the EU. If they were going to use two characters as Protagonist and Lancer it would probably be Jaina and Ben. Having a male/female combo would be interesting as the two heroes. However they would have to be different. I would argue that rather than having Jaina be the contemplative master, make her the "Sword of the Jedi" and have her be the aggressive negotiations type whilst Ben would be more of the contemplative play by the rules Jedi.

    Now which should be the hero and which should be the lancer? Honestly it doesn't matter, both of them will be strong leading characters.

    However I do think there need to be more women in the ST since the OT only had Leia and "The only other woman in the galaxy" Mon Mothma, whom Leia apparently doesn't like
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  12. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    The ST villian was set up the PT.
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  13. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Dark Rogue Jedi or Aliens or combination thereof could work
  14. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    Supreme Chancellor Binks.
  15. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I was actually thinking about minor characters being far more powerful by sequel trilogy. Did any of the Separatists escape Vader's wrath?
  16. Poli-Sci Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2013
    star 1
    What about Toryn "Stand by, Ion Control" Farr on Hoth? She was a woman and seemed to get along with Leia.
    Last edited by Poli-Sci Jedi, Jan 29, 2013
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  17. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I was quoting family guy's "it's a trap..."
  18. run_luke_run Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2004
    star 3
    How is Plagueis not a NEW villain?
    I see what you're saying, but from my point of view, he has served his purpose. His ability to cheat death also served its purpose, as it was used as a main factor in converting Anakin by Palpatine, and hints out just how powerful Palpatine was. And now he's dead.

    I would just simply prefer he stayed that way, and a new evil rises to threaten the galaxy; something none of us are thinking about but will make us say..."oooh...yea...i see what you did there..." :)
  19. Deejo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 1
    The bottom line is someone will be swinging around a red lightsaber. You can bet the farm on that.
  20. fishtailsam Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2003
    star 4
    Yeah.
    With the PT we kinda knew hiow it was going to all shake out. Anikin goes evil, Palpatine weasles his way into power.

    With the ST we have no idea what they could do. I don't think they are going to spoil a blank slate by microwaving the PT leftovers. I say leave Plagulejuice in the PT, let him have his book and his lines in the PT, and leave him there. Give him a video game, a comic, an anime cartoon, but leave him in the PT.
  21. PANAKIN_Hightalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2003
    star 1
    ^^^THIS^^^
  22. DV75 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2001
    star 3
    ^^
    THIS.

    We will know who the bad guys and good guys are. It won't be so blurred as the PT.
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  23. the_sinister_hologram Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 2
    Thinking about Plagueis as "ze bad guy" a bit more, some things came to mind.

    a) Plagueis does not make an appearance in the post-RotJ EU. So this may be the winning card for Lucasfilms and Disney to please both the film-goers and the readers of the EU novels.

    b) A villain who has no significant connection to the villains of the past trilogies will disconnect the ST from the rest of the Star Wars movie saga. And that is something I do not think that Disney want. A Star Wars movie has always continued the story of the previous movie. Starting everything established in 6 movies over from zero will be a uninspired move, to say the least. And a highly unlikely one.

    c) The Star Wars movies have a lineage of villains and heroes. Almost each hero has had an interaction with a villain and vice versa. The lineage of villains has technically ended with Vader's death, so by bringing up "evil-looking bad guy/girl" will be a bit difficult for the audience to accept. Also, a random villain out of nowhere will not have the desired emotional impact and precious movie time will have to be wasted in explaining why this villain is so important, explaining his back story and motivations for being a villain. We really don't have time for this, even if we are talking about 3 new movies.

    d) If the past lineage of heroes will make an appearance, it would only make sense to have someone from the old lineage of villains in the movie. Otherwise it would be very difficult to even reach the standards raised by Vader and Sidious.

    e) Talking about lineages, Plagueis is technically part of the villains lineage - he was Sidious' master. Plagueis also had probably the biggest influence in the lineage of the heroes - he created Anakin, the man around who everything in the PT and OT happened. To go one step further, Plagueis is the lost granddaddy of Luke and Leia.

    f) Plagueis IS connected to the story. He IS part of it. He just didn't make an appearance and was only mentioned once. But his work, his influence is something we can see throughout ALL six movies. Generally speaking, he is responsible for almost everything that happened in both the PT and OT.

    g) Plagueis' was mentioned in RotS for a reason. The emphasis is on living forever, cheating death. We have Force Ghosts, Anakin trying to learn new ways to save Padme. Plagueis found a way, according to Palpatine.

    h) It is better than cloning Palpatine or Vader. Period.

    i) If Star Wars is about the Anakin/Skywalker story, and some don't know how can it be continued - Plagueis is, in many ways, connected to the Anakin and Skywalker story.

    j) The concern is about a villain who won't be as menacing as Palpatine and Vader. Well, there you have him - the Grand Master, the one who orchestrated everything, cheating death and returning to a galaxy in chaos after a civil war and after his power-hungry apprentice was killed. What better timing can be there? When watching the PT and OT, you will always feel that beyond everything we see, far away, there is Plagueis watching and waiting for the right moment to make an appearance. To finish his Grand Plan.

    To be realistic, I am unsure whether it will be Plagueis or not. At this point we know nothing, except that the movie is going to be Episode VII.
    I just thought it would be okay to share my detailed opinions on why I am supporting the Plagueis idea.
    If it turns out to be him, then I'll be happy. If not, then I just hope that their idea is really, really good :)
    Last edited by the_sinister_hologram, Jan 30, 2013
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  24. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    Plagueis is dead. He is no more. He has ceased to be. He's a stiff. Bereft of life, he rests in peace. He's kicked the bucket. He's shuffled off his mortal coil, run down the curtain, and joined the choir invisibile. He is an ex-Muun!
    Last edited by Count Yubnub, Jan 30, 2013
  25. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 7
    31 pages later and we still have not determined who owns the baddie, yet?

    And, we have the gall to call ourselves speculators...
    Last edited by A Chorus of Disapproval, Jan 30, 2013
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