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Speculation Who's The Baddie?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by fishtailsam, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. run_luke_run Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2004
    star 4
    And with each tidbit of info, we'll come on here and debate how each of our theories need to be altered.

    Pray they don't have to be altered again [face_relieved]
    Darth kRud likes this.
  2. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    In ANH the main villain was Tarkin. Vader was a henchman. The Emperor was mentioned in one line of expository dialogue.
    Darth_Articulate likes this.
  3. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Well, we all know Vader was the main villain. Just think of how the film started. And in reality the guy in charge of the whole thing was the emperor. Didn't learn that in ANH though. Anyway, ya, Vader. ANH without Vader would have been entirely lame. ANH without Tarkin would have been fine. :)
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  4. run_luke_run Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2004
    star 4
    Yeah, I must say, there was no doubt from the moment Vader stepped through the blast hole of the rebel ship in Star Wars who the main villain was. Tarkin? Really? I don't remember having a Tarkin action figure on my wish list.

    Nor do I remember seeing a bunch of General Tarkins during Trick or Treat back in those days.
    Last edited by run_luke_run, Feb 1, 2013
    LawJedi likes this.
  5. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    Vader caught the public's imagination, but he was still Tarkin's henchman. He was a crucial link to Luke's and Ben's past, obviously, but he took his orders from the bad guy in charge.
    Last edited by V-2, Feb 1, 2013
  6. Obi-Wan21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2002
    star 4
    Tarkin was a powerful antagonist for ANH, and it seemed like Lucas wanted us to see Tarkin as that film's enemy, "holding Vader's leash" is a proper line to incite the possibility that this man is more of a badass. Maybe I was the only kid who actually dressed as Tarkin, always thought that man was one of the best "film-by-film" villains. And he certainly adds depth to a non-force villain, a Tarkin x10.
  7. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    Yeah that's pretty weird. :p

    I think @run_luke_run made a good point. Vader was on the t-shirts. Vader was on the posters (where Tarkin was the tiny white head in the background). No one can deny that Tarkin had screen time, dialogue, and importance in the story. But so did Nute Gunray in TPM, compared to Maul.
  8. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    Tarkin was the main bad guy in ANH, but Vader's presence is what made the Empire seem invisible. The fact that he was a former Jedi that helped destroy the entire order which lasted a thousand generations and choke a guy without physically touching him makes him the scariest mofo around. Without his force-using threat, the Empire would just seem like another fallible empire.
  9. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    Apples and oranges, don't you think? TPM had Sidious as the big boss, ANH had Tarkin. Gunray didn't order the henchman around, Tarkin did. Gunray only acted under instructions, Tarkin had autonomy. Tarkin was the brains, Vader was the brawn, while Gunray was the bungling dolt.
    run_luke_run likes this.
  10. run_luke_run Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2004
    star 4
    Given the power of Vader and the Emporer, while when ANH was released originally it may have appeared that Tarkin was the main villain, that's clearly not the case in my opinion. Is he the top non-force sensitive being in the villain totem pole? OK, I'll give you that.

    You think Tarkin wasn't obeying the Emporer's orders?

    Tarkin only had what autonomy was given to him by the Emporer and Vader.That said, he did all the general dirty work for them under this guise of authority.

    The Emporer is Golobulus.

    Vader is Nemesis Enforcer.

    Tarkin is...Serpentor.

    Point being, in 1977, Tarkin may have been the bad guy. The prequels (well, and subsequent films form my point of view), change the context of ANH, and the way it's viewed.

    Damn, I just realized how much I missed debating this crap on the boards. :)

    To take it one step further into the ST, this is exactly what I hope happens. I want to watch Episode 7 thinking I know where things are going, only to have some type of reveal/twist in 8...and then again in 9 that makes me view Episode 7 differently.
    Last edited by run_luke_run, Feb 1, 2013
    V-2 likes this.
  11. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    Um, pretty sure Gunray was overseeing an entire army in a planetary invasion and occupation. But I agree that Sidious was the real main villain.

    My point was not an in-universe or story analogy, but a marketing one. Much like with Gunray/Maul, Tarkin did the storytelling legwork, but the audience walked out of that movie remembering Vader.

    Even if Episode 7 has an old, british non-Force user giving exposition, they're still gonna want to put an Dark Side baddie in all of the marketing.
    V-2 likes this.
  12. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    No, he didn't. The book says no such thing.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Feb 1, 2013
  13. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    @run_luke_run Of course I think Tarkin was obeying the Emperor's orders, but in the context of ANH as a standalone film, the evil empire logically had a head of state and that (relatively minor) expository issue was dealt with in the Death Star meeting room scene... I'm not trying to detract from the depth and importance of that scene in the context of the saga. I love the Action Force/GI Joe analogy, btw!

    Tarkin was the main representative of the evil regime in ANH and I'd love to see a Peter Cushing quality (British!) character actor in a commanding role again.
  14. run_luke_run Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2004
    star 4
    I'm with you there. I was so, so, so, so hoping to see Tarkin have some type of role in ROTS, and all we got was a brief glimpse at the end. Another character akin to him would be wonderful.

    Is there any EU about his origins?
    Last edited by run_luke_run, Feb 1, 2013
    V-2 likes this.
  15. EMPEROR_WINDU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2002
    star 5

    Ian McDiarmid would probably be disappointed to know you do not think of him as a quality British actor :p
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  16. EMPEROR_WINDU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2002
    star 5

    Read Cloak of Deception I believe. He has a minor role in that book and he's quite good IMO
    run_luke_run likes this.
  17. Dra--- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 30, 2012
    star 5
    Not baddie, but baddies. I think we should see an army of Sith attack the fledgling Jedi Order Luke has built. The Rule of Two will be cast aside, if it already wasn't at some point during the PT or OT.
  18. Poli-Sci Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2013
    star 1
    Tarkin didn't even get an action figure back during the Kenner figure line :(
    Count Yubnub likes this.
  19. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    From what I understand Kenner were slow producing Star Wars figures until ESB came out, by then Tarkin was dead and they had a load of new characters to produce...
  20. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    The main villan cannot be "new". Ep VII is not a new story, it's a continuation of one story. Way too much has been set up, be it from the begining or along the way, but none the less. Way too much has been done to the OT and elements placed in the PT to ensure the story can continue.

    The baddie will be a Sith. Once again, we will know the master, but he may not be revealed in Ep. VII. The apprentice will be new, and perhaps different for VII, VIII, and IX, although I would prefer one strong enough to last all three films.
    Last edited by LunarMoth, Feb 1, 2013
  21. Obi-Wan21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2002
    star 4
    Would they really rehash such a similar story beat when compared to the prequels. I love the prequels, and the originals, but that proposal sounds like another Prequel story. It's also one of the reasons I strongly suspect a non-force villain, like a Tarkin x10. It would just be so different from the tone of the most recent films. And either trilogy really stands on their own. I guess the larger argument at play is this; will Lucas desire to keep that "balance in the force"? I mean, to wipe that away still in Luke's timeline? I don't know.

    EU not being considered, of course. As I feel Disney will ignore that anyway.
    V-2 likes this.
  22. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    That's the formula of the PT, but not the OT. When Star Wars was new, so were the villains.
  23. run_luke_run Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2004
    star 4
    Only a Sith believes in such absolutes.

    In a way, that's a bit like saying over your life, no "new" things pop up. No new challenges. No new jobs, and no new obstacles.

    Of course it's the continuation of Star Wars, but of one story? What story, exactly? Anakin's story has concluded, and in the midst of that story Han's began, Luke & Leia's began, Obi Wan and Yoda's concluded, Palpatine's concluded, Maul's ended, Dooku's began and ended, etc...

    There will be some continuity, of course, but why can there not be a rise of a new villain?

    Is it possible that some old character will rise to wreak havoc? Of course. Anything, at this point, is possible.
    Graphic, Darth Chiznuk and V-2 like this.
  24. EMPEROR_WINDU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2002
    star 5
    The Rule of Two has been all but cast aside in practicality.
    Show Spoiler
    Just today in TCW Sidious spares Maul and says he has another use for him
    . I think the Sith can be in the ST if there's some reworking of the Prophecy of the Chosen One. We have several official statements from GL that Darth Sidious was the most powerful Sith Lord to ever exist. Perhaps the Chosen One was needed due to Palpatine's immense power, not necessarily to eliminate the Sith forever.

    We could have a Force sensitive who has discovered Sith teachings contained in a holocron. Most of these were kept in the Jedi Temple but I'm sure the Empire confiscated them after Order 66 so who knows where they could be now. I don't like the idea of a student of Luke's turning to the Dark Side, but I really think a very intelligent Force user turned Sith Lord could overcome his lack of brute force (pardon the pun :p) and wreak havoc on the galaxy by gaining a lot of political clout through charisma and political savvy. Maybe if Luke is to die, it won't be in a straight up duel and this unknown Sith orchestrates an elaborate trap to rid himself of the one Jedi too powerful to defeat conventionally.
    Last edited by DarthBoba, Feb 2, 2013
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  25. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    I think there's hints in the books that a lot of those are Sith fakes they let fall into the hands of the Jedi on purpose.