Speculation Who's The Baddie?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by fishtailsam, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    Jar Jar will be the new villain. This spake mine ass.
  2. Obi-Wan21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2002
    star 4
    I think it'd be cool if (ignoring EU) Boba's death finally caught up to the families, and the Mandalorians came after them. If they wanted to create a credible "bridged" threat, as it were. I still vote for a non-force villain. And Mandos would fit the bill.
  3. Force Smuggler Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 5
    So Palpatine believes anyway. I'm sure Thrawn would think of something. Nom Anor is my hope. An army of Vong? Oh yeah! Jacen Solo falling? NO!
  4. Cad Carnage Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2013
    star 1
    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/darth-plagueis-in-st.50006983/

    It seems as though every thread about the villain/sith/baddie turns into a Darth Plagueis discussion.

    [IMG]
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  5. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    PPOR.
  6. Darth Claire Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2012
    star 4
    Sad really. I look forward to their reactions when he isn't the villain *since there's a pretty good chance he wont* [face_devil]
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  7. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
  8. Tan-Wessel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2001
    star 2
    If these boards existed before Ep.5, we'd have endless back and forth about Vader = Luke's father.

    "But he CAN'T be Luke's father! Obi-Wan said that Vader killed him!"
  9. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    You mean between episodes V and VI?
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  10. Vastor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 2
    New baddie will be the Sith, always will be.Why because they work.To say one dont want the Sith is like saying you dont want the jedi.Just doesnt work.
    What is the highlights of the movies and tcw ? saber fights of course and always will be. Cant have one without the other, balance of the force means
    what it means if you have seen Mortis in TCW.And there will always be light and dark side.Even if one kill of every jedi or sith they will come back and train
    because it's the will of the force.I just hope the new sith will be a female, that would be awesome, ventress was no true dark lord of the sith, just a sith assassin.
    There might be some enemy faction aswell to fight but like in the clonewars it will all be backstory for the greater story arc for the force users.

    But for all we know the new movies will take place in the world of the force so ALL will come back ^:)^
    Last edited by Vastor, Feb 3, 2013
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  11. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    The balance of the Force is not a balance of Force-users. As we see at the end of ROTJ, we can have a situation where there is a nonzero number of Jedi and no remaining Sith. At least temporarily. Of course, new darksiders can always spring forth from amongst the Jedi ranks, as long as there are Jedi. But if you kill off all the Sith there's no one left to train new would-be Sith, meaning that any new potential darksiders would be starting from scratch, and the will of the Force is probably fine with that. Darth Plagueis seemed to believe that the Force was "tipped toward the light" during the period when the Sith went into hiding, but we don't see any other corroboration of this belief, and it plays like an expression of a typically skewed Sith POV. We may compare this to Palpatine's musings in Dark Lord, where he seems to suggest that the Force has become balanced by the ascendancy of the dark side, while we know that canonically the Force is still out of balance at that point, and will not be set right until ROTJ.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Feb 3, 2013
  12. the_sinister_hologram Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 2
    If that is what happened in RotJ.
    When talking about this new trilogy, it is very possible that it will have deep roots in the previous trilogies.
    Since this is not just A Star Wars movie and is actually Episode VII (implying a continuation of the plots set in the previous movies), something is still very wrong in the realm of the Force. Otherwise there would be no need for new movies just for the sake of showing what happens after, like an epilogue. Because there are many books who cover that part of the SW history just fine.
    So, since we're getting Episode VII, we'll probably get to the end of the overall main plot of both the PT and OT combined.
    Last edited by the_sinister_hologram, Feb 3, 2013
  13. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    It is, unless future writers retcon the situation.

    The Force doesn't have to go out of balance again for VII to be a legitimate continuation. Consider the OT; the balance plotline was added by the PT, so in the original release of the OT we didn't know that something was wrong with the condition of the Force. We didn't need to; it was sufficiently clear that something was wrong with the condition of the galaxy. The trilogy did just fine without it.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Feb 3, 2013
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  14. the_sinister_hologram Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 2
    Nonetheless, the PT was not just a prologue of the OT. It had strong, very strong connections to the OT's main plot.
    Before the PT was released all we knew was that Vader was bad, then that he was Luke's father, then that Luke and Vader resist the Emperor's powers and subdue him. That was it. Simple, coherent, straight forward.
    With the introduction of the PT elements (the Chosen One, Balance of the Force, the Prophecy) Lucas added a new dimension to the easy-to-understand plot of the OT, giving it an ever bigger meaning. So now when we watch the OT again, we know that the stakes are much, much higher than we originally thought.

    Now we know that in the OT it is just as much about balancing the Force and the Prophecy of the Chosen One as it is about the Rebels trying to overthrow an evil dictator.
    We just didn't know that originally (and who could have anticipated that, before the PT). Whether that was Lucas' original intention or not, the theme is very clear -> plot-wise, the trilogies are inter-connected. That includes both the lineage of villains and the lineage of heroes.

    So, just as the PT was not just a prologue of the OT, the ST won't be just an epilogue of the OT.
    Just as the PT introduced story elements (which almost no one could have anticipated) with strong connections to the OT's storyline, it is safe to assume that the ST will also introduce story elements (which almost no one can anticipate) with strong connections to the PT and OT's storyline.

    Like I said, many books already cover the post-RotJ era. So unless the overall plot of the Star Wars movie SAGA hasn't yet come to the end, there would be no real need for an Episode VII (and even calling it Episode VII).
    The important aspect of the situation is that Lucas is still writing the plot outlines of the entire ST. So the design of the new trilogy's plot will be similar to what we've seen until now.
    Last edited by the_sinister_hologram, Feb 3, 2013
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  15. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    That pretty much goes without saying. But that doesn't mean it has to be a balance-the-Force plot. And even if new Sith appear, and those Sith unbalance the Force all over again ( which is not a given for Sith in general, as demonstrated by a large portion of the period between 1000 BBY and the era of the films ), that wouldn't necessitate a retcon of Lucas' intention that the Force became balanced as a result of ROTJ.
  16. run_luke_run Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2004
    star 3
    ^^
    Which is why I think that (assuming Luke is older and in the film) whatever evil does rise will truly, truly be a phantom menace, and take him off-guard. From his perspective, the Sith died off with the Emperor.

    Which begs the question...what is indeed left?

    It's been mentioned that perhaps, sensing Vader's desire to kill the him and rule with Luke, that the Emperor began training a secret apprentice. The reason I think this can be eliminated from the possibilities is that this was his whole point in grooming Luke. Just like he goaded Anakin into slaying Dooku, he was planning on Luke killing Vader, and we have successfully rinsed and repeated.Why would he be training someone else when his plan was to simply adopt Darth Luke?

    Which begs the question...what is indeed left?
  17. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    Tens of thousands of untrained force-sensitives that hid from the Empire having 3 decades to wreak havoc with their out-of-control powers while Luke desperately tried to begin some kind of Jedi renewal?
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  18. admiral_Jim Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2004
    star 2
    As it's episode 7 I.e. follows on from ROTJ in some way and Anakin has supposedly brought balance to the force and everybody lives happily ever after (the ewoks were dancing, what more proof do we need) then this is a tough one, I'm not sure it would work having the baddest man in the galaxy rocking up out of nowhere.....my guess is it won't be clear immediately who the baddie is and why. There's 2 avenues in my opinion, 1) Sith, which would probably require a jedi gone bad - maybe a student of Lukes 2) non Sith, a big time criminal of some sort that has some sort of leverage over the jedi which makes the main characters vulnerable..........it's becoming increasingly clear that it's just a good job I'm not involved in making this movie. I don't actually mind who the baddie is as long as he/she is BAD
  19. run_luke_run Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2004
    star 3
    Right there with you, Jim.

    I suppose I'll throw my official "guess" in the pot at this point...of course knowing absolutely nothing about anything related to the film; that it's one of Luke's students who discovers something...gets tempted...and betrays him.

    I'm also predicting I'm most likely 100% wrong.

    But if I'm right someone remember this moment. [face_whistling]
    Last edited by run_luke_run, Feb 3, 2013
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  20. Tan-Wessel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2001
    star 2
    Nope. I meant before. As an analogue to "Plagueis can't be the villain (in a future movie) because Sidious said he killed him."
  21. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    This thread is posing the question: Whose the Baddie?

    I take that to mean that the poster of the thread is asking for us to respond by giving our thoughts on who the villain may be in the ST by using or pointing out hints and/or evidence from what we already know. How else could you answer that question?

    Many are saying things like "It's time for something new", but the question was not Who Do You Want to Be the Baddie......

    Now if you believe that the villian will be brand new, for example, because you believe that the Sith were destroyed in Ep VI, therefore there is no other option, that would be an answer to the question regardless of who agrees with you.

    I would like to ask those who do think we will get someone brand new to demonstrate how a brand new villain could be introduced and still continue the core Skywalker plot. I don't think that a student of Luke's turning on him cuts it. That would just fall under "stuff happens to Luke" as opposed to continuing the core plot. The Skywalker plot is not just an "adventures of" thing. It has roots. It came from somewhere and I would think it was going somewhere in the ST.

    Don't get me wrong here. I'm not trying to deny you your opinion, but rather I am trying to understand where it is coming from. I enjoy hearing everybody's thoughts on these things. I'm the first one to say that I don't know any more than anyone else at this point in the game, although my interpretation may be different from yours. Thats the fun of this time in Star Wars-dom.
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  22. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    If these boards existed before Ep.5, we'd have endless back and forth about Vader = Luke's father?

    Why would people be thinking Vader was Luke's father before Ep.5? Did anyone actually think that before TESB?
  23. Tan-Wessel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2001
    star 2
    I'm saying that IF it were brought up...then the responses would be akin to...
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  24. Darth Chiznuk Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    I am one of those who think we will get a completely new villain and I'll be the first to answer your question. To me, the main conflict in the ST will be Luke trying to rebuild the Jedi Order (which obviously connects the story to the other two trilogies as that was the duty Yoda bestowed upon him) while at the same time the New Republic is attempting to unify the galaxy (there being two superpowers in a sort of Cold War analogy.) My official guess for who the main villain will be is the "Evil Mother." I think Luke's wife (Mara Jade or a separate character all together) will be the main trouble maker in this new trilogy and will be leading a rogue group of Jedi. Luke will be hesitant to confront her and when he dies in IX he passes on this duty to his daughter. I think this connects all three trilogies together as it will show the rebuilding of the New Republic and the Jedi Order. I have other ideas about how to connect the story to the other trilogies like at the beginning of the films the galaxy is highly militarized and at the end we see the military decommissioned and the Jedi once more the guardians of peace and justice. Also, the Evil Mother would come close to turning to the dark side and Luke would fear the rise of a new Sith Order. Anyway, that is my official guess and I agree that it is very fun to speculate.
    Last edited by Darth Chiznuk, Feb 4, 2013
  25. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    Finally, an answer! Kudos for that!

    Cool idea, but most of the elements here are EU stuff, or similar to thngs that have happened in the EU. Also, the idea of Luke rebuilding the Jedi order, although it does tie in the other trilogies, is really sub-plot. The core Skywalker plot is not about Jedi or Sith, Empire or Replublic, but has more to do with this bloodlines place and purpose in the galaxy. You could say that Luke rebuilding covers that, but its much deeper than that. It's more like discovering their origins in order to have the tools to rebuild.

    There are sill a lot of questions on the table about The Force, Anakins true origins, the prophecy, and the Sith. A new villain would not address any of these things, and thats why I can't see it going that way.

    But still, we are all in the dark at this point. :mad: