ST Who's The Baddie?

Living planets are the wrong kind of camp for SW. Even in Marvel comics I always found them more weird than threatening.

 

Agreed, except in the sense that all planets with life could be considered living themselves, but that isn't what we're talking about. One of the first EU novels I tried to read was Rogue Planet, and I gave up on it as soon as I realized the territory that the story was heading into.

 

This thread is getting wacky. We need an official villain announcement.

 

Exactly.

Also, I don't even think that the cave in TESB is actually a "domain of evil" and strong with the dark side, so I don't know how I would buy a whole planet being that way.

 

Agreed. Yoda may have used his power to create that vision & test for Luke. May be nothing special about the cave. What he told Luke about it may have only been true...from a certain point of view.

 

Exactly. Not to get too off-topic in this thread, but quoting myself from the "Cave" thread to further explain what I meant:

 

Yep that's how I've always regarded that scene.

 

I tend to agree that the Cave is not necessarily a metaphysical local of the darkside, and I've argued before that it could be a psychological test created by Yoda. And I'm not sure what the recent Yoda arc did for or against this view since the Priestesses were behind most of Yoda's tests. We did see Yoda have some kind of darkside encounter in the Cave on TCW, but it's hard to say if that was because of the local itself, or the Priestesses.

One of the reasons I'm unsure about the Cave is that the independent reality of the darkside -- independent outside of the individual -- has not been confirmed by the films or TCW as far as I see. So right now I'm not yet comfortable with believing the reality of darkside locals in the GFFA -- although I'm fine with changing my mind if the ST or Rebels adds more to what we know. Even Moraband doesn't necessarily need to be read as strong in the darkside; the Priestesses claimed they were behind everything that took place there.

It doesn't seem impossible to me that the darkside exists independently in the GFFA, but if it does, that seems to suggest the Will of the Force is not singular and stable, but dual and split, hence unstable.

And having written that last part, phrases like the Balance of the Force pop up in my mind and I wonder if that phrase itself is evidence that Lucas views the darkside as an independent entity.

Regardless of all that, living planets just don't make good protagonists in my mind, and would work better in genres like bizarro fiction or weird tales.

 

Cave or no cave:

1. How does one explain guardians of peace and justice turning into murderous psychopaths?

2. When Obi-Wan told Luke about Vader "betraying" Anakin, isn't "turned to evil" and "seduced by evil" redundant?

3. How does one explain yellow eyes?

Back to the cave, nowhere is Yoda shown to have the power to generate illusions nor is Luke ever shown to be on drugs.

 

p.s. Could someone create an image of a Muun version of Darth Sion? I'd imagine Plagueis being "alive" in the sense that Sion is "alive".

 

Just to clear something up, I've seen a lot of people around here refer to the villain as the "protagonist." The villains are actually "antagonists," while "protagonists" refers to the heroes.

Just something that was bugging me.

 

All good questions. I think 1-3 can all be explained by the darkside having an existence inside individuals. That is, it does exist, but can only exist in beings that feel hate and anger. Rocks and non-consious objects don't feel emotions, so the darkside can't exist in them. The darkside even seems to be produced by or is synonymous with anger and hate.

We know Yoda can do mind tricks, so it's possible he also has the ability to cause Luke to hallucinate in the Cave. Or perhaps Luke has a vision in the Cave? Or it's even possible the Priestesses were testing Luke, and Yoda was helping.

We know the Force is generated by life, but we also know that the light and darkside are connected or even generated by particular emotional states. So if there was a darkside location, I think we'd need to have these conditions apply. I suppose a planet could be angry, but even typing that makes the whole scenario sound undesirable.

 

I'm a fan of taking the magical mechanisms of a fantasy universe at face level.

 

Me too.

Anyway, about Plagueis:

Unlike in Lord of the Rings, being the older/master Jedi/Sith doesn't make you the more powerful Jedi/Sith. Yoda, im 800s, was defeated by a 63-year-old.

 

Yoda wasn't defeated.

 

How come he fled then?

 

he was running out of time. He knew that he could not actually win the battle, and a bunch of clone troopers were coming that would make things that much harder

 

Doesn't that kind of constitute a defeat if you don't kill your enemy and you run away out of concern for yourself getting killed? I'm not dissing Yoda, but he certainly didn't win and to call the fight a draw would be very generous, but that's me.

 

He "Aint" have time to fight a Sith allday. Knowledge to pass on

 

okay this is a quote from page 3


That's just the thing, I think Plagueis actually HAS BEEN DEAD during the years that marked the rise of the Chosen One. At the end of the Plagueis novel, right before he dies, he actually courted death and allowed Sidious to kill him. Why would he do this? I think he realized that Anakin was going to destroy the Sith, so he decided to one-up the prophecy by "dying" in a way that would allow him to come back once the Chosen One was out of the picture. I'm not quite sure how he achieved this, but if anyone was smart and powerful enough to do it, it was Plagueis. So I think he will either be resurrected or wake up somehow, and be very pleased to see that both Anakin and Sidious (who was becoming a rival) are dead, allowing him to re-implement the Grand Plan.

sorry i dont buy it. he will stay dead.

 

Yes, I wouldn't mind Plagueis at all, but i cant really buy into him dying on purpose and then oh hey everyones dead, time to return to life.

 

In other words, he was defeated.

What I was trying to say is that older isn't better.

 

right. However Luke is more powerful now in the eu then he ever was when he was young. In Luke's case older is as lot better. Other characters like Obi Wan and Qui Gon were weaker when aging

 

All I'll say is that strength and weakness are very relative with regards to the Force.

1. Indigestion
2. Semantics. He was "seduced" and that caused him to "turn."
3. Jaundice.