Speculation Who's The Baddie?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by fishtailsam, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. DarthBlanco Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2004
    star 4
  2. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    When I first saw this I thought it meant Abeloth.
  3. Darth Chiznuk Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    I should have elaborated on my idea a bit more. While the outer goal of the characters (mainly Luke) will be to rebuild the Jedi Order, the inner/spiritual goal of the main character would be to accept the Skywalker legacy. I like the idea that the hero is very reluctant to accept their destiny. I can just imagine what the weight of not only Anakin's legacy but the Skywalker legacy in general being placed on this new hero would do to them and I think that should be fully explored and fleshed out over the entire trilogy.

    As for Luke, I just love the idea that he must confront his own failure in this trilogy and it makes it even more interesting because his failure is with one that he loves. But unlike ROTJ this time he can't bring the one he loves back and after he dies (perhaps in a fight with the Evil Mother) it would be up to his child to confront her mother. Of course unlike Luke our new hero would want revenge against the mother and would set out with the intent to kill her. This would then require both of them to be redeem in a way.

    As for the Evil Mother (I don't think they should use the name Mara Jade), I think she would have noble intentions (bringing order to a galaxy in chaos) but slowly she would be corrupted by the dark side. She would deny the presence of the dark side in herself at first but in the end when she recognizes it, she would destroy herself so that her daughter (herself coming dangerously close to the dark side) won't have to be the one to do it. I like the idea that this time around both the main hero and the main villain fear the dark side (with it consuming one of them and destroying her.)

    Anyway, this is just an idea I've had for a while and I think it could work. That said if the villain turns out to be Darth Plagueis, as long as it is well done, I'd be okay with it. I just want a great and memorable villain.

    No, definitely not Abeloth. I like the Mortis arc as much as the next guy but no. :p
  4. bluemilkcheesypuffs77 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
    Guys with Abrams directing we won't find out who the villain is until after episode IX. you know how he likes to keep things secret.
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  5. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I'm pretty sure it's...
    Show Spoiler
    [IMG]
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Feb 5, 2013
  6. Darth Dru Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2013
    star 1
    The Sith/Dark Jedi will for a time indirectly play a role, but the main antagonist is something far worse. Think cancer/mutation and midichlorians, as well as a completely new story element with a twist on an ancient backstory and prophecy.
  7. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    The Rule of Two isn’t so much a religious dictate but an acknowledgement of Sith psychology. Per Uncle Georgie’s commentary on the DVD of ESB, there can be more than 2 Sith, albeit temporarily. However, Sith always act at cross-purposes with each other until there are no more than two left.

    What Dark Lord of the Sith worthy of the name would stoop to following rules? The RoT is a self-correcting process. Let’s bring the EU and movie novelizations into the discussion for a moment.

    Darth Tenebrous told Darth Plagueis that he was done with the Rule of Two, but Plagueis offed him anyway. Why? Not because of some rule, but because he viewed Tenebrous as an impediment to his plans. Also, as it turns out, Tenebrous had trained a second apprentice anyway, in case Plagueis needed to be put down. Plagueis kept Darth Venamis around well after defeating him, only allowing him to die (and be brought back again…and again…and again…and…) as a demonstration to Sidious of the extent of his power.

    Plagueis told Sidious that he was dispensing with the RoT, and seemed unconcerned about the existence of Darth Maul, partially because Sidious fed his master a line of nerfshavit that Maul wasn’t a “real” apprentice. When Sidious offed Plagueis, it wasn’t because he craved Plagueis’ power (to paraphrase Darth Bane) or to prove he was stronger. No, he discarded Darth Plagueis as a tool for which he no longer had any use.

    Sidious fed Tyranus a line about discarding the RoT, even to the point of saying that together they would go old-school and build an army of Sith. It was probably meant to get Tyranus to go along with his plan to make the most powerful being in the history of the galaxy utterly furious at him. Sure enough, Sidious goads Anakin into killing him, not because of some rule, but because if you’ll notice, Sidious orchestrated the systematic execution of any and all Seperatist leaders who could implicate Palpatine and Sidious as being the same person.

    That brings us to the OT. Sidious and Vader probably cared exactly three-fifths of **** all about the Rule of Two. Vader viewed Sidious as an impediment to his plans of bringing order to the galaxy, but was concerned he couldn’t take him alone. Sidious was looking to trade up, because nothing says “I am the baddest [censored] in the galaxy” like having the second baddest [censored] in the galaxy kneel before you.

    Heck, even in the Legacy comics, you saw the Rule of Two begin to re-assert itself:
    [IMG]
    (in case you’re wondering, the one standing is not the reigning Dark Lord)

    Before the series’ untimely end, we began to see the One Sith begin to unravel as various factions started to form once they suspected that Darth Krayt was dead.

    So...rule? Not so much. Just how they are? Totally!
  8. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    This is the only reason I focused on Plagueis as the possible Sith. He's the only one mentioned in the films and was into cheating death. A new sith just popping up and being a threat to rival that of Palaptine's threat to the galaxy would be strange. An entire new sith order without the rule of two would be cool. Hundreds of sith, maybe even thousands. I'd take that over Darth Plagueis. It could be a possibility seeing the Jedi order, in the OT, didn't exist and couldn't go around the galaxy kidnapping force sensitive babies in order to brainwash them into their cult ;). They could do this with a Sidious Sith ghost guiding them or just by force sensitives finding a Sith planet with holocrons etc.

    Something like this (below) would make an epic film but I wouldn't think they would get right into it with episode 7. The entire series could be about the rebuilding of Jedi/Sith, with the usual republic drama of running the galaxy as well. Throw in some mandalorians, some Nightsisters, some crime bosses, some Empire remnants, some bounty hunters and you have a film.

    Last edited by Darth kRud, Feb 6, 2013
  9. Anakins_Real_Father Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2002
    star 3
    An Imperial who is learning the ways of the Dark side.
    Dra--- likes this.
  10. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    This is still a lie no matter how many times it gets repeated.
  11. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    See post #940. Re-read the first sentence. Dwell on that for a while. Ponder it. Live it. Become it. After you're done with that re-read the last two sentences and put that theory into practice.
    Last edited by Darth kRud, Feb 6, 2013
  12. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    See post #978. The Jedi don't kidnap anyone. That is still a lie. Continuing to repeat a lie doesn't make it true.
  13. SoWizard Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 1
  14. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Well, he's older that's good. I didn't want to see some young no nothing whipper snapper be the main villain. He's human, obviously, but I suppose any villain is still up in the air, as in, could still be an alien species. His age would indicate the charterer was alive or around during the OT.....
    Dra--- and SoWizard like this.
  15. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Ladies and gentlemen George Orwell has graced us with his presence. Who am I O'Brien and you Winston in room 101? The evil bad man is trying to torture the truth out of Star Wars! Quick, grab your shield of indignation and defend the twoof! You're such a martyr for the cause. I don't really care what the Jedi did but here's a snippet from "The Rise Of Darth Vader"...just to **** with you:

    "I never wanted you to be found," Jula said when she had deactivated the holoprojector. "To this day I don't understand how your father could hand you over to the Jedi. When I learned he had contacted the Temple, and that Jedi agents were coming for you, I tried to talk your father into hiding you."

    "That rarely happens," Shryne said. "Most Force-sensitive infants were voluntarily surrendered to the Temple."



    and would like you to stop quoting my posts.
    Dra--- likes this.
  16. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I got that, because the truth is that they did one thing, while you insist that they did another. Thus what you're saying happens to not be the truth. And you don't care, right? But when someone tries to set the record straight...

    Then you care. [face_thinking]

    I think you used the wrong quote. This should read "the Jedi could kidnap you". I mean, there's gotta be a quote out there somewhere that proves your lies about the Jedi. Keep looking, maybe you'll find it!

    =D=
  17. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    The personal attacks stop. Now.
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  18. Darth_Downunder Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2001
    star 4
    Will he do?
    [IMG]
    Last edited by Darth_Downunder, Feb 7, 2013
  19. Vastor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 2
    SaucySarlaac and SoWizard like this.
  20. run_luke_run Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2004
    star 3
    Hey there Lunar_Moth, haven't been on for a few days, but I wanted to try to answer your question from my point of view. Your question made me ponder this quite a bit, which is one thing I love about the Star Wars mythology. And of course I now have a question for you as well, which is...from your point of view, what is the "core Skywalker plot"? I actually completely agree that it is much, much more than just "stuff happens to Luke, etc.", and I have faith that Lucas has a clear vision of where it is headed. In fact, without the core Skywalker plot, there is no Star Wars, in my opinion. Well, at least not unless you are talking about one of the "spin-offs" that are apparently in the works.

    To me, the Skywalker saga is a symbolic journey about the human condition. The characters are tested in ways that we can all relate to, and in the end, it has ultimately been a story about the power of love and the need for human connection. The myth of the lone hero is also exposed, as we see time and again that without those we rely on most, we can never truly accomplish our goals. But, I've always thought that love...how it develops, how it is tested, and how it can overcome even the darkest evil, has been the cornerstone of the Skywalker saga...does that equate to a "plot"? I don't know, but even as a kid, it's how I related to these films.

    Episode 1 - 2

    Love between a mother and son, the fear that comes with being torn away from that natural source of security, and the rage that is ignited when someone rips that source of love away from us.

    Episode 2 - 3

    The love between two people grows, and is then manipulated to serve the Dark Side. We also see the seductive and cancerous effect of power, and how it can twist the meaning of love, and lend us to betray our closest allies. I really liked the idea, though, that love...love for a significant other...is also the reason for Anakin's fall. Had it not been for the Jedi swooping in and taking Anakin away from his mother (no, I am not suggesting they "kidnapped" him by any stretch of the imagination), he could have saved that source of love and security. So, now we have a drama that plays out in everyday life all around us...people who are so scared to lose someone they love that they will go to drastic, irrational measures due to the fear it causes. Of course, in this universe, the Dark Side is just as intoxicating, and twists true love into a narcissistic, self-serving entity. Of course, the very idea of being the cause of love's loss (You killed Padme) is the true birth of Darth Vader, but that birth (from Vader's perspective) was indeed instigated by the Jedi. If not for them, his mother would still be very, very much alive.

    Episode 4 - 6

    Pretty simple to explain here...Vader's love for a son he thought he lost lights a fire that was thought to be completely extinguished forever. For me, when he realizes it's Luke, love brings Anakin back to life...right here. Of course, it's almost entirely smothered by evil, but the spark has been lit, and the love between father and son...just like the love between mother and son and husband and wife...is impossible to stop once it starts burning.Then we finally see the undeniable love that comes from the son towards the father. Luke's love for him fans the flames of that spark inside Vader, and brings Anakin back to life...like someone bursting up into the air after being help underwater for much too long. Love for a father brings Anakin back to life, and love for a son destroys the Sith.

    At least, we thought.

    So...being that from my perspective the Skywalker journey is about these themes, the only thing I am betting on is that whatever struggle is presented to our main character(s), love will be a central theme...that love will be tested...lost...which leads to fear and anger...but ultimately love will once again vanquish whatever evil does emerge. That said, I do indeed believe the main villain, whoever that is, will have ties somehow to the PT and/or OT, but not as cut and dry like Palpatine being cloned or Darth Plaque-attack being resurrected...I think it will be a more along the lines of something or someone that was hidden, plotted, or carefully placed with the purpose of igniting the same rage in Luke (or his child) that Anakin once faced when he lost his mother.

    And now I'm not even sure if I answered your question. :)
    Last edited by run_luke_run, Feb 7, 2013
  21. Darth Chiznuk Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    Dude, I can't even like this post enough!! A wonderful, wonderful, thought-provoking post! =D==D=
    run_luke_run and SaucySarlaac like this.
  22. SaucySarlaac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 1
    I personally like the Sith in hooded robes rather than spin offs of the mechanically supported, robotic vader clones like Malgus from TOR. I think they should stick to yellow eyed, hooded, sinister sith, powerful force users and lightsaber combatants but more palpatine/dooku than vader/maul types of extremes.
  23. run_luke_run Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2004
    star 3
    Thanks, Chiznuk :)

    That's just how I have always seen it.
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  24. Darth Chiznuk Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    I thank you. That post did really inspire me. :)
  25. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    Sorry for the delay in responding to this. I am working on a (clear throat....) film, and my schedule has been a little nutsy....

    So, what is the "core Skywalker plot"?

    That used to be easy to answer with simply "The rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker".

    We all know that there have been various "plans" for Star Wars trilogies going all the way back to the begining in the 1970's. We have been told there will be 3 movies, 6 movies, 9, movies, 12 movies........ But the thing that was consistant regardless was that the end result would have been the redemption of Anakin. That is to say that the story we were told that spans the existing Ep 1-6 was once said to span 1-9 or 1-12. But what ended up happening was that the 9 or 12 episode story was condensed into the 6 we now have.

    My belief is that somewhere along the way between 1983 and the PT becoming reality, GL decided that the "core Skywalker plot" was not complete, and thus began to set up an ST within the prequels.

    As you pointed out, both Anakin and Luke are the "every man" in the story. People who we can relate to with problems that need to be solved in order to move forward. Problems that are often both caused and solved by people who they love, some of which they have hurt in one way or another. In such, continuing this plot requires the characters to come to terms with who they are, where they came from, where they are going, and most importantly....why.

    These are the things Anakin still needs to learn and pass on to Luke and Leia in order to set things right. Luke and Leia will need to understand these things in order to move forward successfully. Its not rebuilding the Jedi Order or the Republic that continues the "core Skywalker plot". It's what they discover about themselves that gives them the tools to do so. This is why the ST has been referred to as being more philosophical.

    The "why" is easily answered with simply "love" so that the bad things dont happen again.
    Last edited by LunarMoth, Feb 8, 2013