Speculation Who's The Baddie?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by fishtailsam, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    An army of darksiders seems pretty ridiculous after the Sith were destroyed. Where would all these darksiders come from? Too many lightsabers or force users in one place are lame anyway.

    The new Sith could be a secret project of Vader, frozen in Carbonite when Vader met Luke. Then, in Episode VII, he is thawed out.
    I doubt Palpy had a secret apprentice. He seemed happy enough with Vader in TESB. Remember, initially he wanted Luke killed, not turned.
    Last edited by Darth_Pevra, Feb 14, 2013
  2. Air Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2013
    star 1
    Possibilities for the return of the Sith.

    Ancient Sith frozen in carbonite.
    Completely random new Sith.
    One of Luke's students falls to the dark side, discovers some Sith holocrons.
    Secret apprentice of Vader or Sidious.
    Secret apprentice of Vader or Sidious frozen in carbonite.
    Darth Plagueis returns as himself, literally cheating death.
    Darth Plagueis reborn in a new body, literally cheating death.
    Darth Plagueis evil force ghost, guiding new Sith from the dark side netherworld, cheating death from a certain point of view.
    Darth Plagueis evil force ghost, possessing a force sensitive body from the dark side netherworld, cheating death from a certain point of view.
    Darth Sidious freezes Darth Maul in carbonite during The Clone Wars, Maul is still alive in TCW tv show.
    Darth Sidious freezes Asajj Ventress in carbonite during The Clone Wars, Ventress is still alive in TCW tv show.

    Did I miss any? Some possibilities are more likely than others, some are similar to what we've already seen, some have no ties to the PT & OT, and some are corny. Just wanted to put all options on the table.

    A Sith with Joker like motives could be anyone of these, maybe Darth Plagueis is frustrated that he can't return in the physical form so he just decides to destroy the galaxy.
    Last edited by Air Jedi, Feb 14, 2013
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  3. HankSolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2012
    star 2
    I threw this idea out once before, but maybe (pardon the pun) a 'JR Ewing in space' would be a good intro villain, leading to a potential Sith.
    Last edited by HankSolo, Feb 14, 2013
  4. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
  5. the_sinister_hologram Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 2
    Just throwing this interesting and "unexplained" quote in here from RotS:

    "a Prophecy that misread, could have been..."




    [IMG]
    Last edited by the_sinister_hologram, Feb 14, 2013
  6. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    He got kinda silly towards the end.
  7. Darth Claire Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2012
    star 4
    We don't need a "Darkside Joker"....we already got one

    Dont act like you guys dont want to see Luke go insane and become the Joker. We all secretly want to see that ;)
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  8. Darth Lycan Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2013
    With jj at the helm, I hope the federation invades the galaxy & we can end the debate over sci-fi supremacy once & for all.
  9. The Hellhammer 7SA Forum Interrogator

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 5
    I always found it funny that for all their supposed power, Star Trek ships start falling apart after the first hit they sustain and then they just keep falling apart for the rest of the fight. In fact, they can take quite a beating but it seems the crew gets hysterical rather quickly. Funny things, those Trek ships.
    And then hold a debate about wether it is morally acceptable to return fire.

    Don't get me wrong, I really love some things in Trek but just...has it's absurdities hah. :)
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  10. Graphic Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 2
    Legend isnt that good. But Tim Curry is a hell of a bad*** in this:



    Could be a nice Trailer for VII too.
  11. Bullhead CIty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2012
    star 2
    I'm gonna kick the hornet's nest on this thread because the book was just too good.

    This thread inspired me to read the book. The negative reception here to the idea of Plagueis appearing in the ST is funny because he never really appeared in the films to begin with. He's mentioned. Is that really going to just kill everyone that a *mentioned* character makes an appearance? The Clone Wars were mentioned in Ep.4, was everybody bawling when we went to Kamino?

    Anyway, a few things:

    In the book, I forget what page, it lists a few powers former Sith claimed to have had. Flying, the weather, ...and transporting oneself through space and time.

    Though drunk, Plagueis did not fight back when Sideous attacked him. Why?

    Did he want out?

    Was his death a part of the "Grand Plan" that Sideous was not aware of?

    Escaping to a future place and time to rebuild the galaxy in his vision after the Sideous led Empire and elements of the Old Republic tore the galaxy to pieces?

    I'd venture to say that perhaps the true "Grand Plan" did not have both Plagueis and Sideous as Co-Chancellors. That even sounded preposterous during the book reading. You would think the Sith would have had a *better plan* as far as a galatic reshaping. After all, Plagueis was convinced the citizens of the Republic would love them for showing them true freedom and liberation once they took over. How was that Imperial rule for ya Alderaan???

    Plagueis was not dumb. He was an apprentice for like 80 years. How long was Sideous' servitude? 25? 30? Plagueis also knew his apprentice very well. He knew Palpatine was very self assured, and he massaged Palpatine's ego by greasing the wheels of his political career. He even allowed Sideous to train Maul. How much more fostering of self assurance would that be? Recall too that Plagueis' own master Tenebrous underestimated him, just as Sideous may have. Tenebrous didn't think Plagueis had what it took to be a real Sith.

    Plagueis spent decades in solitude, sequestered on Sojourn. Was it all just experiments that whole time? From Sideous' egotistical POV, it was.

    You also get the feeling, in hindsight, about 2/3 through the book that Plagueis was not afraid to die. The attack by the assassins that almost killed him, had not Sideous intervened. The attack on Sojourn, in which he seemingly took his time evacuating and made sure to destroy all of his work and those old Sith records so Sideous could not benefit from his knowledge. The whole site was leveled by a nuke, yet he insisted the droid destroy all records beforehand. Remember, Sideous nicknamed him , "The Wise", in veiled sarcasm. By extirpating his life's work, and the former centuries of his Order's knowledge, he thus ensured his apprentice could not copy his plan, or get a leg up on him.

    If the ST is truly going to make us see the six established films in a new light, the idea of Plagueis in the ST could be a legitimate gamechanger that could tie the previous trilogies to the new one. If we were talking about Ventress, Dirge, Cad Bane, etc. I'd admit that conversation would be over before it began. But the fact that Plagueis was mentioned, and his story was showcased as the *hook* for Anakin to begin his defection speaks volumes. It's in the film. It's canon.

    It's obvious in the book that Plagueis, not the Sith in general, is "The Phantom Menace". It could be a grand story, with Luke's own existence indirectly effected by Plagueis. Maybe Luke was destined for something even greater than we thought?

    Luceno's novel is either the greatest work of an apologist for George's OCD storytelling methodology, or a grand character placement that magnificently weaves EU and the PT seamlessly together.
  12. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    If they use the Muun I hope they give him more personality than he had in the novels because there, the only thing interesting about him were his experiments. I don't really want to see another standard scheming villain/evil wizard type.

    I'd rather see something new.
    A hedonist Sith would be cool. Wine, parties and flirting with the female jedi protagonist while at the same time being a proficient lightsaber fighter and a charming manipulator. Also a bit capriciousness to make him appear dangerous.
  13. SaucySarlaac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 1

    I would love Plagueis to be back, but he would have to be in the same vein as he was in his novel. I like the idea of him being this influential and spindly muun.... Rather than returning from death as a raving sith maniac, I would prefer it to be more subtle, but just as deadly. For example, a Muun of wealth and influence running a corporation and plotting again but being discovered would be cooler than say, Darth Maul released from Carbonite, bearing teeth and saying crap like 'I knew your father, I hated Kenobi, Jedi must die' etc
  14. Air Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2013
    star 1
    I'd be cool with this guy being the villain of the Sequel Trilogy.

    [IMG]
    Last edited by Air Jedi, Feb 16, 2013
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  15. Air Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 1, 2013
    star 1
    I agree, I haven't read the novel but I think Darth Plagueis is one of the more likely options, Darth Maul not so much.
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  16. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    You mean you want a puppeteer villain like Palpy? Been there, done that. I hope Arndt is a little more creative than that. We need a unique villain, one who stands out among the others, not a weak carbon copy of Palpatine.
  17. SaucySarlaac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 1

    I agree that Plagueis is the phantom menace... We hear this phrase used by Tenebrous... "The Sith no longer wear armour but robes of shimmersilk, we are a phantom menace" .... (I paraphrase) I believe Plagueis was killed by Palpatine, and he did try to fight back, but I believe he did know more about the force than Sidious.

    I also believe that the shared plan for the galaxy conceived by Plagueis, was a more peaceful balance than the Empire run by Sidious. In Plagueis' vision, he and Sidious would rule for the benefit of the galaxy. Undeniably, they wanted the power, but more important than their lust for it was their belief that they were the right people to do it because it was for the benefit of the people.

    Palpatine tells us Plagueis was afraid of losing his power, but in fact, if we re-assess the Empire, Sidious shared this fear of losing control, hence the dissolution of the Senate, introduction of Regional governors and the construction of the Death Star. Luke says Palpatine was overconfident, true, because at that point in their confrontation, Sidious had the upper hand and knew it. However, he did also happen to be over cautious.

    Had the plan gone as Plagueis hoped, both of them ruling together, I believe their empire would have outlasted Sidious'.

    If then, whilst experimenting on Sojourn, Plagueis learnt a few new tricks, such as rediscovering how to do essence transfer, would provide us with an interesting old adversary in a new interesting form, with the potential to die and be reborn across three films.
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  18. SaucySarlaac Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 1

    I probably wasn't clear, sorry. I want a villain who has been hiding during the empire, building their own empire and then makes a bid for power agains the Sequel trilogy crew, and we discover, it is plagueis, reborn.
  19. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    You mean he patiently built his power base while waiting for the right moment to strike like a spider in a web? That sounds exactly like the standard-fare cold and scheming villain. I still don't see a big difference to Palpatine.
  20. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5


    Heh, that's what they all think at first, don't they? But then in reality it usually turns out they were in it for the power and after a couple years nothing of the good intentions remains. Dictatorship 101.
  21. the_sinister_hologram Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 2
    It is better than introducing some random villain, never mentioned before, with no real connection to the previous trilogies and who is just there because *someone* had to fill in the role of the main villain.
  22. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I'd rather have a randomly appearing interesting villain instead of a carbon copy of a previously existing villain.

    Plus you could always give Plagueis a different personality than the boring one he had in the novels.
  23. Palp_Faction Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 3
    Plagueis may have discovered the power of reincarnation and could well be one of Luke's students in the new Jedi Order....waiting for his time to strike.
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  24. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    I don't think Plagueis should be in it at all. Brigning back dead characters isn't good idea, and as far as the films go Plagueis is dead. They should focus on creating a new and original villain. It's new movies for a new era, bring out the new!
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Feb 16, 2013
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  25. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    It was a surprise attack. As such it doesn't indicate anything about Plagueis' willingness to die or lack thereof.