Speculation Who's The Baddie?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by fishtailsam, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    If no Darth Plagueis I'd like to see a sort of Darth Nietzche rebuilding the Sith empire where the films explore Jedi and Sith philosophy while having him be interestsed in the study of the dark side in general as Plagueis was. They really did kinda rip Nietzche off a tad with the Sith code and Sithari stuff. May as well call the next Sith Darth Nietzchus.

    [IMG]
  2. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Just walk away....give us your fat tank of gas. Give us the gasoline and just walk away. Give us the gasoline and you will not be harmed. Just walk away and leave the gasoline to us. The gasoline will be ours. There have been too much violence, too much pain. Just walk away and there will be an end to the horror. The gasoline. We want the gasoline. You're selfish. You hoard your gasoline.
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  3. L0RD VADER Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2000
    star 4
    Mina Organa, Leia's daughter.
  4. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    star 3
    A couple of arguments I keep seeing on this thread that really just cancel themselves out.

    1. Plagueis as a villain would take to much time to explain. Any new villain is going to take time to explain. Any villain is going to be brand new. We are going to need to learn about their backstory and history. A new villain would take just as much time to explain as Plagueis would. It doesn't need to all be done in one long monologue. We learned about Vader little by little. This is a bad argument is I ever saw one.

    2. Resurrection would minimize the impact of death in the series. Who is saying anything about resurrection? Most naysayers of Plagueis on here are firmly throwing out anything EU, and only going by what the films say. Let us then observe the evidence we have of Plaguies death in the films. Palpatine said he died.... That's it. That is the only amount of evidence we have of his death. We hear about it from a man who is evil incarnate, lies to get what he wants, and has an ego the size of the galaxy. We hear no details on what happened after Plagueis supposed death, we see no body, and really we have zero evidence. If you take the EU into account, the novel itself even leaves room for Plagueis still being alive by never really dieing in the first place.

    3. It would be cliche. This is often followed by needing a students of Lukes to turn to the dark side or having a skywalker fall to the dark side. Yes, we are going to avoid what some may consider a cliche that has never happened in the franchise so far by putting in another cliche that has already taken place multiple times in the franchise. That just screams of originality.

    4. There can't be anymore sith since Anakin fulfilled the prophecy. The prophecy says zero about the sith never returning. It says nothing about the force forever remaining in balance. There is a grand total of zero evidence that Anakin's actions would forever keep every force user form adopting the views of the sith.

    5. They are going to have an original story so we can;t have Plagueis as the villain. In the case we cannot have any character from past movies, none of their descendants, no reference to a single event within the past films. Original story means no direct adaption from a book. It does not mean a complete reboot.

    I think it's fine to not like the idea of Plagueis returning, but most of these arguments don;t seem to work. Half of them can be used for any other scenario of a villain as well.
  5. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    About your points:

    1) I agree

    2) I think I have said a billion times now that I'd be okay if Plagueis simply ... switched bodies with a clone or something before he was "murdered". If he simply tricked his apprentice in believing him dead I have no problems with him appearing in movies. However, most people here do argue for a Plagueis who is capable of resurrecting dead people. It is his shtick after all. Why even use Plagueis if you don't go for the Necromancer thing?

    3) Yes, I agree, a student of Luke falling to the dark side would be boring.

    4) True

    5) I agree, that argument is ridiculous.
  6. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    Revenge of the Sith makes it very clear that Palpatine is relishing in his memory of murdering his former master while telling the tale to Anakin. It's one of the best scenes in the PT. I won't support anything that weakens it.
  7. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    star 3
    Palpatine believed he killed him. It wouldn't change the scene any in my opinion. It certainly does not diminish the fantastic acting in it. At this point, any villain they chose is going to feel like it is diminishing something for some fans.
  8. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    I think it would cheapen it, we'll have to agree to disagree. I'd rather a new character. Plagues is just too much of a stretch for me.
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  9. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    star 3
    Fair enough. I honestly still fail to see how he would be a stretch, but I get it is not everyone's cup of tea. I think any villain at this point will feel like a stretch to folks. You need something more iconic and threatening than we have had in the past I think. Not saying that means they go for something ridiculous, but they do need something truly iconic. In seeking that it will natural turn some people off no matter what they decide.
  10. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    We all bring our own subjective tastes to the table :D
  11. StoneRiver Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2004
    star 4
    I think Plagueis could very well end up being the villain the Emperor was supposed to be in GL original outlines from way back. A mysterious villain controlling all from behind the scenes and only seen in the last part of the story. Just my guess based on GL's trend for re-using discarded ideas.
  12. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Plagueis isn't dead! He lives in the hearts of everyone!
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  13. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    I think, for me, if Plagues was just the average Sith who dedicated his hundred plus years of life to normal Sith stuff I'd also have a problem with it but he was a sort of Sith sorcerer who was obsessed, literally obsessed, with cheating death. This fact combined with the fact he was basically the architect of the entire friggin Sith plan to destroy the Jedi/Republic kinda opens the door for all this speculation ya know? Not to mention his possible involvement in creating Anakin. Plagues was also big on ending the rule of two which could be a sort of Darth Krayt scenario where Plagues rebuilds the Sith empire whilst Luke rebuilds the Jedi order. I don't think they necessarily need Plagues to do that though. If there is to be Sith in the new films I think Plagues is the best option.

    What I don't understand are the people who think there should be no Sith. It's like, are we watching the same films/reading the same books here?
  14. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    The EU says those things, I say Palpatine was the architect of his own plan as seen in the films. I don't like the EU changing that.

    As far as I'm concerned, Palpatine killed Plagueis years before the events of the Phantom Menace, and then took Maul as an apprentice and trained him.
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Feb 21, 2013
  15. run_luke_run Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2004
    star 3
    DP is hardly EU. The Phantom Menace is woven into the text. It's EU Lite.

    Glove of Darth Vader? EU.

    DP? About as "EU" as Labyrinth of Evil. Written with the intention of becoming an extension of the films. Of course, we're all allowed to live in our own little fantasy world. :)

    Hell, you know what? Screw L. of Evil too. As far as I'm concerned, General Grievous is really Earthworm Jim.
    Last edited by run_luke_run, Feb 21, 2013
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  16. run_luke_run Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2004
    star 3
    .
    Last edited by run_luke_run, Feb 21, 2013
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  17. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    The way I see it, anything that isn't in the six feature films is EU. And I view EU as seperate. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy it. But it means it's a seperate story, at least to me.

    The movies make it clear, Palpatine is the master. The DP novel is a retcon. One that I chose to view separately. I have a strong feeling this point is moot anyway, because I really don't see Disney making him a character in the upcoming films.
  18. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    star 3
    Normally I agree, but Lucas was so involved in the Darth Plagueis novel it is really hard not to connect it to the films. There is a reason Lucas was as involved as he was with that novel. I mean, people can choose to just toss it aside as any other piece of EU, but it seems pretty clear that even Lucas does not view it that way.
  19. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4

    And I do choose to set it aside. I have only one standard, it's in the films or it's not. I love The Clone Wars cartoon, but I don't consider it canon either.
  20. Lord Optimus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2011
    star 2
    [IMG]
    Last edited by Lord Optimus, Feb 21, 2013
  21. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    star 3

    I personally consider something the creator the canon to be canon itself. I think some fans become little to EUphobic to realize something from anything remotely EU could still work in the films. Liking the EU certainly isn't required, but I'm not sure it should be used as a reason to not have Plagueis in the films. Obviously we will not agree on that though :p

    While I would love Plagueis I do not have my heart set on it. All I care about is an iconic force using villain that is not a Skywalker or apprentice that goes to the dark side.
  22. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    Just for the record, I am not an EU guy in any way, but I believe that Plageuis is quite likely to be in the ST.
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  23. Ridley Solo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2010
    star 4
    For the love of all things holy, no more resurrections! [face_praying] Don't plague us with Plageuis....
  24. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Sarcasm doesn't suit you. Those two books are C-Canon which means Arndt can probably disregard them however he wishes.
  25. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    Arndt is writing the script, not the story. The story is from Lucas. And Lucas reportedly had quite a hand in "Darth Plagueis"--so we'll have to wait and see whether he'll ignore that or not.
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