1. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    Give me an example of a "new" villain that does not completely disconnect the ST from the existing saga.

    If you can, you get a cookie.

    If not, you get Plageuis. ;)

    But seriously.... As all of us are speculating, one thing that lacks in every argument against a villian that we already know, whether its Plageuis or not, is that a brand new villian can't connect to the rest of the story. This is a continuation, not a new Star Wars story. Thats what the VII means.

    If we look to the films (I'm not an EU guy, and don't believe it will be honored) and the films only to try to figure out the direction of the story, there are not many choices that make sense. That being said, Plageuis is the only element in the existing movies that can smoothly connect the existing story to the ST. Lots of folks are worried about ruining the existing story by making everything that happened in the PT and OT useless if the Sith are just going to return after. The trick is going to be HOW they return. Everything in the existing saga had to happen, regardless of what comes next.

    Look at it like this:

    Plageuis knew Anakin was destine burn the house down, destroy the Sith, and die in the fire. So he knew not to be home when it happened.

    Thats my theory. I may not know for sure that I'm right, but you don't know for sure that I'm wrong......

    2015 here we come!! [face_devil]
  2. Darth Claire Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2012
    star 4
    Why do I get this feeling tons of people here are gunna go into some INSANE ranting if the villain is announced and its NOT Plagueis. All that insisting that he must be the villain...man this movie is gunna be SOOO fun to follow [face_dancing]
  3. LukeSkywalker7 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2012
    After reading this thread I am in agreement with those that say "no resurrections". It would be anything goes after that. I love the Clone Wars cartoon. It's really fun . But I had to get over some of the silly things that are not movie quality stuff like Savage Opress, Maul coming back etc. Its fun because I was bummed Maul got taken out and it's interesting to see more of him. But it would be really bad to bring him back in the movies. I would say if this was gonna be the very 3 Star Wars movies forever then it would be a different story.
    Darth_Pevra likes this.
  4. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    You really think they're going to announce the villain at all? Palpatine wasn't named as the villain until Episode III (though everyone really should have known after Episode I... sooner, if they paid attention to the EU).

    And you guys realize that if Plagueis returns, he won't be the ONLY villain, right? He'll just be the Sidious. We're going to get new Maul/Dooku/Jango/Zam/Gunray/Grievous/Tarkin/Piett/Boba/Jabba/Vader secondary villains too.

    Darth Plagueis wouldn't be a resurrection. Just somebody you thought was dead, actually being alive.

    Like Anakin Skywalker in the OT.

    Or the Sith in general in the PT.
    Last edited by Summer Dreamer, Feb 21, 2013
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  5. Darth Claire Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2012
    star 4
    The reveal *or lack there of since this is JJ* of the villain will probably go along the lines of this:
    Interviewer: Is the villain somebody from the EU or movies?
    JJ: Oh I dont know *runs away giggling like a secretive school girl*

    Then the internet goes BOOM. Either way nobody knows for sure who the villain is. We most likely won't know and acting as if we know for a fact who the villain is, is pointless.
    Unchosen One likes this.
  6. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Nobody is saying they know for a fact who the villain is.

    We're arguing:

    1. Plagueis is clearly the most logical choice

    and/or

    2. we just want to see Plagueis as the main villain
    Last edited by Summer Dreamer, Feb 21, 2013
  7. Darth Claire Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2012
    star 4
    I've seen a lot of people act as if its a near certainty *I still don't see how but whatever*". Sure. But whatever. Its not important anymore. We just need to track down JJ...........but then again...not knowing is truly the fun part of everything.
    Last edited by Darth Claire, Feb 21, 2013
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  8. Darth Gangrenous Game Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2005
    star 10
    The whole Sith vs Jedi thing has sort of gotten old in my opinion after being the center of six movies and roughly 200 novels and TPBs. Maybe something along the lines of the Vong that have no presence in the Force where the Jedi have to rely more on true combat skills instead of being able to anticipate their enemy's movements.
    Force Smuggler likes this.
  9. Deejo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 1
    I will say it again, if you think Disney won't have a red lightsaber crossing a blue lightsaber at some point, you are in for some disappointment.
  10. Unchosen One Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2012
    I would be very surprised if they drew off any villain we've seen so far in the movie saga, or the EU. They were so adamant about this being a purely original plot and all of that, you'd think they'd be more original than recycling characters.

    I do disagree with the groups of people who think that just because JJ Abrams has a habit of being so secretive about his movies that he denies that they exist 4 months after their release, that we won't get some kind of publicity-reveal about the new villain at some point pre-release. We'll make him tell us.
  11. Darth Claire Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2012
    star 4
    Coarse he won't deny their existance. I can just see him pulling a "John Harrison" (which is my new term for constantly teasing the audience about the identity. Is it Khan? Is it Gary? Is it something completely new? WHO IS HE?!?!).
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  12. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    I have no issue with Plageuis not being the villain, it's just that at this point with zero real knowledge, and (for me) only the films to go by, he works.

    Lucas has provided the treatment, which will cover the big stuff in the ST story, and whoever the villain is, the villain is.

    As far as speculation goes, I don't hear any reasonable argument for anything else. For the most part we hear "no resurrections" or "I don't want...." Although it's fine to see or want something else, it doesn't make for a very good discussion.

    There are really two things that the new villain needs to do:

    1. Kick some Vader-worthy rear end.
    2. Connect to the SW Saga.

    Just as you don't see how Plageuis can be the villian, I dont see how something/someone not already connected to the story can be. Sure, we'll get a new villain in the same sense that Boba Fett was new in Empire and Jabba was new in Jedi, but the main baddie has to have some connection to the story.

    I do agree that this is fun to follow!! =D=
    Last edited by LunarMoth, Feb 21, 2013
  13. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    i'm curious how plagius is a logical choice since he's supposed to have been dead for going on 80+ years by the time these come out. going by initial guesses as to the timeline anyway.

    regardless, even if he can control life, can he bring himself back from the dead? i don't really see how, even with a force ghost. and i don't think they'll be the force ghosts we've been seeing. mainly because it doesn't look like they're going to be using any EU anything.

    and i'm with gangrenous, jedi vs sith gets old.
  14. Darth Claire Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2012
    star 4
    Well since this probably takes place YEARS after ROTJ a lot can happen between that so in a way it doesn't have to directly connect to the PT or OT but whatever. I just hope that whoever the villain is can actually be scary and intimidating *and not just physically looking but scary as in we are legit scared of what he can do to our heroes and the entire galaxy. Nightmares man we need NIGHTMARES!*. Sadly that might be hard to find a villain worthy *since I got a long list of things this villain needs to be*, but who knows...maybe George hasn't gone completey insane and we might get a villain worthy of being the villain after Vader. And yes...I LOVE following this film. Even though we're gunna have SOO many false rumors thrown in our faces 24/7.
  15. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    I agree with LunarMoth that the villain must be connected to the overall story of the previous two trilogies but I just don't see that Darth Plagueis is the only way to do this (not that you're saying that LunarMoth.) The most important thing for me is that the villain should have an emotional connection with the main hero. The villain doesn't need to be a Sith IMO but the dark side should play a role. The Sith began as Jedi and I could see history beginning to repeat itself in the ST. The very Order Luke has struggled to rebuild beginning to split in two as Jedi start to follow the dangerous path toward the dark side led by someone Luke cares deeply for. Now I've already posted who I believe could be the main villain and I believe a storyline like this could make the trilogy of trilogies a cohesive whole. Just my two cents though.
  16. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    star 3
    Once again the original story logic for not having Plagueis falls flat on its face. Carry out this logic to its natural conclusion. Your argument would require there to be zero characters from the previous films, zero reference to any past characters, and zero connection to any past movie plots. All they meant by original story is they will not be adapting any of the books like the Thrawn trilogy. They most certainly did not mean they will not use any already available characters to write a brand new story.
  17. Unchosen One Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2012
    Hahaha I didn't mean they'd stick the Star Wars logo on a completely foreign concept, like putting a Cheerios label on a can of sardines. I meant basically what you did but I also drew the implication that they didn't intend to grab an EU villain or faction (i.e. cloned Palpatine, Thrawn, the Vong, anything that's already been done and had it's run) to use in the ST.
  18. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Others have said it better, but to summarize: Plagueis really connects the entire saga together. He's indirectly responsible for the Skywalker family. He trained Palpatine. He got Sifo-Dyas and Dooku on their side, and thought of using a Clone Army from Kamino. He unbalanced the Force. He's the reason for Anakin's fall to the dark side.

    And he was obsessed with cheating death and living forever.

    (And in the EU... Sith Lords can exist in spirits, still anchored to the physical world, and a few of those Sith Spirits have even found new bodies to possess or succeeded in healing their old bodies... so they never truly died. Plagueis also had the power to actually resurrect people too, he killed and resurrected one guy repeatedly in a single day.)

    Jedi versus Sith is essential to the main saga, it's the spiritual core and it makes the money... the spinoff movies can feature something else.





    Also, two general points I'm tired of hearing from several people:

    1. "I just can't see how it can be done." Well, other people can. And the people who make movies tend to be more creative than most people. This is not an argument.

    2. "It doesn't look like they're going to be using anything EU". Evidence? There is none. Not for these movies, and not for past movies either. At one time, Coruscant and Palpatine were only in the EU.
    ***ALSO, Plagueis isn't even EU. He's a movie creation. One of the first things Lucas did after deciding on making a Sequel Trilogy was getting heavily involved in the writing of that EU book, as much as he was on the movie novelization, approves line-by-line and edited by him, which is very rare.



    Who else, then?

    And I think a "Jedi turning to the dark side" thing has been done too much... Dooku did it, Anakin did it. That's enough. The heroes should definitely be tempted, but this shouldn't be the main conflict. And it sounds very similar to what happened with Jacen Solo in the EU.
    Last edited by Summer Dreamer, Feb 21, 2013
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  19. Unchosen One Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2012
    I for one would not be excited to see another fully-CG cartoon-character in the form of a Muun Sith for the next 3 movies. General Grievous already looked about as realistic and life-like as a marionette.
  20. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    star 3
    Plagueis is not EU creation though. The films set him up as a sith obsessed with eternal life. The argument still doesn't work.
  21. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    I haven't read a single book about Jacen Solo so I can't speak to that but just as Jedi turning to the dark side has already been shown so too have Sith Lords. Their both essential themes of the Star Wars saga and I really don't see how one is more overdone than the other. I'm just keen on the idea of history repeating itself and while the Sith are destroyed and balance has been brought to the Force the dark side still threatens Luke's fledgling Jedi Order. I like the idea that these fallen jedi are being led by someone Luke cares for and their confrontation would ultimately lead to his death which would then cause the hero to seek revenge thereby coming dangerously close to the dark side as well. As to the identity of the main antagonist my idea is the Evil Mother (aka Luke's wife) and I know that is probably not a popular idea but it is just my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Really one of my reasons for liking the idea so much is because it gives a prominent role for the hero's mother so she's not just some background character. Since we never met Luke's wife in the OT I don't like the idea that she either just shows up or is already dead. So the main themes of my supposed ST would be learning from past mistakes, rebuilding, and passing on what you have learned. I like that.
    Last edited by Darth Chiznuk, Feb 21, 2013
  22. Death T Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 1
    C'mon dude. It's 2013. Not to mention a Disney budget. If an alien character is the main antagonist he'll look fine.
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  23. Unchosen One Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2012
    What I like about this is that it fits with the overall evolution, if you will, of the relevance of Star Wars villains throughout the saga.

    • Darth Maul - Complete stranger to the heroes/Jedi, they never even really talk to him but they know he's a Sith and enemy of the Jedi.
    • Count Dooku - A Jedi fallen to the dark side, hitting a little closer to home since he's one of their own. Later reveal: he's the Master-once-removed of Obi-Wan Kenobi.
    • Palpatine/Darth Sidious - Friend to the heroes/Jedi and leader of the Republic for two movies, and he's Anakin's mentor-confidante.
    • Anakin/Darth Vader - Main protagonist for three movies, student of Obi-Wan Kenobi, and father of two of the main heroes in the OT.

    For the next villain to be someone foreign to the heroes, who they have no real emotional ties to, is a little counter to the trend set in the six movies of the saga to date. Darth Plagueis is like, what... Luke's father's-master's-master-thought dead? It's like Lone Star to Dark Helmet. Having the new villain be someone emotionally close to the heroes, such as a direct relative like a spouse, child, or sibling perhaps if the torch-bearing heroes are Solos or Skywalkers (or Calrissians?), would create an intrinsic relevance to the struggle that the movie audience could all immediately relate to. I like it anyway.
  24. obi_kenobi_24 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2003
    star 3
    while I get the fear, and in general would love to see more of the gritty look of the OT....I think they would do a decent job on the effects if called upon for the villain

    I thought they showed great progress with Yoda from AOTC to ROTS for example....add another 10 years of tech and it should be ok
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  25. Lord Optimus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2011
    star 2
    Indeed, the CG on the Hulk was considered by many to be unrealistic/cartoony in the 2003 Hulk and the 2008 Incredible Hulk, but well done in the 2012 Avengers.

    Also if Plagueis is the main villain, there's a chance we might not even see him until Episode VIII or IX, giving some more years to improve upon the CGI.
    Last edited by Lord Optimus, Feb 21, 2013