ST Who's The Baddie?

That scene still sticks with me. Maybe have one of them say that his greatest threat since the Emperor and Vader is coming or something.

Have to admit, I laughed.

 

I figure that Force Ghosts all reside in the "netherworld of the Force" but can return from it, for a while. How long may vary.

 

as long as they want to

 

Perhaps the new baddie (Plagueis) is so powerful in the Dark Side that he can disturb the Netherworld itself, making... life hard for the Force Ghosts.

 

Yeah, Force Ghosts have attained immortality.

One of the reasons to attain immortality is to influence corporeal events when they -- or the writers, really -- feel it's necessary. Recall that Qui-Gon in TCW, although only a disembodied voice, was able to shake objects and I believe (IIRC) lift Yoda. And the Priestesses are also Force Ghosts, albeit very advanced ones. And they seem to have no problem manipulating corporeal objects, like Yoda, on the Force planet and Moraband.

It's basically up to the writers to exercise restraint from overusing Ghosts.

Although, personally, I wouldn't mind a book or spin off movie that explores the Jedi Netherworld. Maybe the ghosts have an important role there?

 

TCW gave me the impression that there's no such thing as "the Jedi netherworld". There many references to those who don't become force ghosts simply ceasing to exist upon the death of the body. Of course, that could all be unreliable narration.

 

It's not the Jedi Netherworld, but it is implied (from what I understood) that only those who have managed to achieve true serenity can be a Ghost. Serenity is achieved through inner-peace and discipline and a Sith Lord kind of lacks that.
The problem with TCW is that apparently they could not decide on who are the most powerful beings in existence. First they went with Father and family, then with the 5 (or was it 6?) Priestesses in season 6. To me it seems that they couldn't make up their mind. The Force and the Netherworld are some very blurry concepts (Sith magicians?) after some TCW episodes and I doubt that the movies will get too much into those concepts, but rather try to make something different, so that all viewers would understand what's going on and not just the people who saw TCW.

 

No, that's a good point. I don't see any reason to find the Priestesses unreliable so far. They seem 1) trustworthy and 2) possibly omniscient.

You're smart to point this out. However, I think what I mean by Jedi Netherworld would be the location Yoda and Obi-Wan go when they're not in the corporeal world. Most Jedi would not go to this place, as the Priestesses suggest, except for those who become immortal. Which would be few.

But yeah, you just made me realize that that episode possibly retcons the old Netherworld concept, possibly deleting it.

Good work.

EDIT: It could be that Force ghosts don't ever leave the corporeal world now, but are always present in it as eternal consciousness. So, no netherworld needed.

EDIT: Then again, I believe ROTS refers to a Netherworld. So I'm not sure.

EDIT: Circular Logic???

 

"An old friend has learned the path to immortality. One who has returned from the netherworld of the Force - your old Master, Qui-Gon Jinn."

I was under the impression that all Jedi souls go there - but only Force Ghosts return.

 

I'm calling it now.

The Sarlacc pit is the new Sith master. He made a deal with Fett not to digest him if he agreed to be the Sarlacc's apprentice.

 

That might or might not be literal. It could also refer to a place where souls loose their identity.

 

I agree with that Iron_lord. I guess the big question is what is the netherworld now? Place or state of being?

A place would look like a world, with landscapes and objects like rocks or plants (or whatever). A state of being would simply be something like the Force on a micro or quantum level.

It could be either now with the old Legends-verse deleted.

EDIT: I think I'd still like it to look like a place, opening the door to multiple realities or dimensions in Star Wars. But this just might not be what Lucas envisions...

 

Could be. In the EU, there's hints that loss of identity is what normally happens.

 

Just thinking out loud here; is Mortis the Netherworld from which the Force Ghosts can project themselves into the real world? On Mortis Qui-Gon could appeared in physical form but could only project his voice from Mortis into the real world. If true then both Obi Wan and Yoda would now reside there.

Not sure why but I always assumed that when he died Anakin ascended to Mortis to take up the mantle of The Father and maintain Balance of the Force. We saw that when balance slips in the real world Mortis is physically affected.

 

Dra---

The Netherworld of the Force is not referenced at all in the RotS film or novel, as I recall. But the implication was there that it did indeed exist, I think. Qui-Gon's spirit refers to it as "join[ing] with the Force", in which the individual's consciousness and physical self (remember how Obi-Wan and Yoda's bodies disappear) become one with the Force, yet still exist as their previous identity. The Netherworld is not explicitly referred to by name in canon, as it seems to be more of an EU invention. Nevertheless, the Yoda arc of TCW delved enough into the nature of Force ghosts that I think it's fair game for the ST to explore it further, if the writers so wished.

I for one agree that they should set aside a subplot or even a spin-off film exploring the nature of Jedi Force ghosts or other more mystical elements of the Force. That would be a fascinating film to watch, IMO.

Edit:

Mortis is definitely not the Netherworld of the Force. It is simply a place so powerful in the Force that it acts like a conduit by which the Force is extremely concentrated, allowing Qui-Gon to manifest himself in a more physical form. I doubt Anakin was supposed to go to Mortis following his death; he merely joined the other Force Ghosts in becoming part of the Force, and I figured the whole Mortis subplot is over and done with after its resolution in TCW. Then again, the EU authors seemed to disagree (FotJ), but since they are no longer canon, I think Mortis has been resolved now.

 

But isn't the Netherworld mentioned in the ROTS screenplay? Which I understand is canon as well, unless outright contradicted by other sources...

Could have sworn the Netherworld was also mentioned in the novelization, but I must have been thinking of the SP.

The meaning of the phrase "one with the Force" seems to preclude a Netherworld. IMO.

 

Ganodi in The Gathering: "I can do this. I am one with the Force - and the Force will guide me."

 

Well they do have to teach him how to be a Force Ghost as well

 

In ROTS the world Netherworld is referenced when Yoda tells Obi-Wan the Qui-Gon has "returned from the netherworld of the Force".

 

This reminded me of something I posted a few months back so I unearthed it for a re-post here because I feel strongly about this subject:

I was always for this idea, that, to me, the ghosts of Kenobi, Yoda and Anakin dematerialized completely from that world as their work was now complete, Yoda knowing the fate of the Jedi was in good hands and that Anakin and Obi-Wan had now finally found peace; that their appearance to Luke at the end of Return of the Jedi (for which only Luke is able to see them evidently) was their last appearance to him. And that's it. Now they are gone. It preserves their sanctity and mystery and gives them a proper conclusion that strengthens their ultimate purpose (both within the universe and as fictional characters). To me, that is the best outcome in regards to the force ghosts.

 

Ok, so is this in the film or just the screenplay? I don't have time to search it.

 

It's in the film at the end when they are aboard the Tantive IV.

 

I was sure I had it there, what with them losing consciousness to get there and the lack of time difference on their return. I thought the planet Yoda visited was the one with the strong connection to the force, the source of the Midichlorians and that Mortis existed on another plane. I feel the need to watch these two story arcs again.

Agreed that both arcs are too far out there for a main stream Star Wars Cinematic movie at this point in time.

 

I'm not even 100% convinced Mortis existed. It was kind of left open. Maybe it was nothing more then a vision similar to the cave on Dagobah though a lot more detailed.

 

How to become a Force Ghost:
Step 1: Die
Step 2:
Step 3: Become A Force Ghost