ST Who's The Baddie?

Wasn't it a point in RotJ that the Emperor had brought most of the Imperial fleet to Endor and we saw a number of those destroyed along with their commanders - though it is never specified how many the implication is (as RotJ was at the time the as far as Lucas was concerned) enough were destroyed that the Empire was broken.

Now, since it is no longer the last episode in the series that can be changed but it does take away from the whole ending

Plus the celebration is already underway by the time Luke arrives - until then they don't know that the Sith are dead for certain

Would they really start partying if the majority of the fleet had simply jumped out of the system - they could still just as easy regroup and come back around

You have to keep in mind that the Empire and the Republic are largely the same group of people. Many within the Empire where previously system leaders within the Republic. Although some. like Bail Organa, knew what was really happening, most were duped into thinking that this "Empire" idea was right....... Thunderous applause...... Sure, Palpatines oppression over the following years would have worn that down, but at some point post ROTJ the truth comes into play. The truth that Palpatine was behind the entire collapse of the Republic. The truth that the Jedi were not traitors. And perhaps the most important truth, that the guy most responsible for for the defeat of Palpatine was the son of Darth Vader, a Jedi who was also duped into following Palpatines plans.

It is not a given the the Empire would still be in power.

It's quite workable that the Republic returns post ROTJ.

Although recent rumors suggest that there will in fact be an Empire in EP VII, we dont really know for sure yet, and either way works just fine.[/quote]

Yes, the system leaders and Moffs would fight on for a number of years - but 30 years doesn't sound reasonable

And even if it was there are more important factors to consider - creativity and imagination

Star Wars shouldn't go backwards

A radically different organisation - in nature, structure and size born from the ashes of the Empire - is okay but it should be a minor threat so that the ST can establish itself as it's own Trilogy

Agreed

They don't seem to be - yes - that doesn't mean they aren't doing anything - Disney and Lucasfilm are not in the habit of telling the world much

Plus the reaction may not be legal in nature - for all we know Abrams himself may have dealt with it personally with a phone call to admonish Smith

Or not

We may never know

 

You make very good points - bear in mind though the Empire didn't control the whole galaxy - the Outer Rim was largely uncontrollable then there was the Corporate Sector who would surely move on a destabilised Empire - and the Senate, while long ineffectual, was only disbanded during ANH - and that wasn't the whole Alliance gate red at Endor, it was the fleet - they would have at Rebel cells on other worlds too

As I said earlier though an important factor is creativity and imagination - just as they are introducing a new set of heroes they should give us brand new bad guys

 

No, there's no mention that the fleet at Endor was the absolute entire Galactic Fleet gathered from the whole of the Empire. I believe some sources, possibly even the novel which is canon refer to it as a "sector fleet". In any case Palpatine had such low regard for the Rebels as a threat that you'd assume he gathered just enough of a force to easily outmatch them.

We only see a couple of Star Destroyers taken out + the SSD & the DS.

Since the Imperial fleet far outmatched the Rebel fleet even after the DS explosion it's kind of obvious that the Imperials fled & didn't engage the Alliance ships. Otherwise there would have been alot more fighting & no rebels left at the end.

The Alliance mission was a success. The DS was destroyed & the Imperials retreated. More than enough justification for partying & fireworks

...Mind you the thought that the Imperials jumped back from hyperspace halfway through the celebrations & reduced Endor to a burning cinder is morbidly hilarious.

 

I'm fairly certain someone said something like "half the Imperial fleet" in the movie

I thought it was that he was so confident that he went overboard in the number of ships in showing off - and hence his arrogance brought half the fleet to their demise

Yes, we only see a few destroyed but I thought the implication was that there was more destroyed and the fleet was crippled - even then Lucasfilm didn't have the time, money or resources to show the kind of extended battle that would be needed

 

No mention of the size of the fleet at Endor. In any case hardly any of the Star Destroyers are shown to have been destroyed.

The point is, the creators of EpVII are only bound by what was shown on screen. Whether the movie intended to imply that half the fleet was destroyed or not, it wasn't shown so the story can be that the Imperials fled as soon as the DS was destroyed. This is clearly implied anyway. The film cuts from the DS explosion to fireworks & partying. I don't think we're meant to think that the SD's finally engaged the Alliance ships after the DS explosion & there was a huge battle that we didn't see.

If the Empire is back in a different form in EpVII (which spoiler reports are indicating), I predict that a future release of RotJ will show a quick scene of the Imperial Fleet escaping into hyperspace after the DS blows. Similar in style & purpose to the scene at the end of ANH when we see Vader escaping in his fighter

 

Why would Palpatine bring in the whole fleet (if that were even possible) and leave those other areas undefended?

 

The implication is that at ROTJ that is "The Imperial Fleet".

There are lots of short cuts in ROTJ to bring the story to a (premature) close. Only 2 Sith, The emperor as central macguffin to defeat, etc.

 

"The Fleet" is used throughout the Saga. It doesn't indicate size or scale. Vader had a handful of SD's in ESB yet kept referring to it as "The Fleet" when he gave orders.

 

"the evil Galactic Empire" - ANH opening crawl

 

If the Imperial Fleet is even only half as big as it's presented to be in the now non-Canon EU, bringing in the entire fleet would fill the screen, literally, with Star Destroyers.

 

Even if every single Moff, Admiral, and Star Destroyer were all somehow present at Endor, there's still the Imperial Government on Coruscant, which if anything would be even more evil than the Moffs and Admirals.

 

Evil - but not necessarily all that competent - given how spectacular the celebrations on Coruscant got before they had the chance to suppress them.

 

Was probably just a drunken street party. Had nothing to do with the victory.

 

They were celebrating the Cubs winning the World Series.

 

Whoever was next in line might have been happy that Palps and Vader were gone. The deaths of Palps and Vader meant a chance to rule.

 

And who's to say that some politicians named by the Alliance won't be corrupt.
Not to mention the Imperial Governors - they have no reason to suddenly give up everything they have just because Palps is no more. On the contrary - now it's their chance to rule.

 

The Empire was a tool used by the big bad, Palpatine.

 

The Empire is still made up of people with daily lives. Whether a faction is "evil" or not is determined by the leader's decisions.

 

If the leader has been steering them in the direction of doing evil things - and they get a taste for them - they may continue them even when the leader's gone.

 

people do tend to do that a lot.

 

we've probably discussed this in this thread but the guy right under the emperor was this guy.

Grand Vizier - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars Wiki

In a cut scene from Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, Sate Pestage was intended to have an appearance. He was referred to as the "Grand Vizier."

i'm not saying he's the baddie but maybe how the empire continued.

 

Would be a good example of a "movie concept that the EU fleshed out" - so maybe more likely to make it in.

 

i would think he or someone like him would be a puppet leader until some dark forces wriggled their way into control. max von sydow and his apprentice maybe. if there are any dark siders in the empire i think they would be hidden.