ST Who's The Baddie?

Right, and the same applies to any changes to the treatment. JJ wouldn't just willy nilly change something -- he'd need KK's approval and even Lucas.

If you recall Lucas okayed the changes JJ wanted to make over what Arndt wanted.

Any change to the treatment would be something more than one person agrees on.

 

Totally follow you Dra---. I'm all for new baddies who are fundamentally different from what we've seen before. I think that's why we both liked the idea of the Nightsisters in TCW, right?

All I'm saying is we don't need more Sith to have more intriguing dark side foes.

That said, the GC rumors seem to be pointing towards something that may not be that different (although arguably Force sensitive troopers is somewhat new). But then she is not likely to be the big bad.

 

I like the idea of Palpatine's lower ranked student (Von Sydow) commanding the new Empire. Over the last 30 years, the Empire has been hunting Force-sensitve users to recruit to the Empire. One of those recruits is played by Adam Driver, who eventually becomes Von Sydow's apprentice. Maybe this is the reason Luke has been missing. He's been trying to build the new Jedi Order, but the Empire has gotten to potential padawans first. The Empire were aware of Luke's plans, so they sent out a bounty for his life. Luke stays away from Han and Leia to prevent putting them in danger.

 

Yoda seemed to know better in TPM, and hopefully Luke will as well.

Ann OT-centric view (which you described JJ and Kasdan as having) would ignore the existence of the word "Sith". The word is never spoken in the OT and nobody cared about the word no matter how many toys and novelizations used it. If I was writing the PT, I wouldn't have included the word "Sith". It annoys me to this day.

 

I said Force balancing & prophecies are twaddle. It's a big call to say that Sith are twaddle. They're in the title of a pretty good movie after all. Unless you think of that film as Ep III: Revenge of the Twaddle

 

Twaddle is even more fun to say than Sith.

But seriously, the term Sith is a money maker. It's become part of our pop culture lexicon. For that reason alone, I'd expect it to be thrown into the ST.

 

What if ROTS had been titled "Balance of The Force"?

Isn't whether or not something is twaddle purely an opinion?

I was just saying that you gave me the term to use.

I can count on one hand how many people I've run into who know the term.

The only product to have the term in its title also had "Star Wars"' in its title.

 

Then...that's what it would be called. I prefer RoTS to BotF

Of course, I wasn't criticising. People are getting sensitive around here. Was just offering my opinion that it's a big call. The Sith are a pretty huge plot element.

I know, feel free to keep using it. Even at work & at home

 

I could count on one hand those who haven't heard of Darth Vader, but rarely if ever do I see "Darth" without "Vader" outside of the hardcore, knows every single fact fandom.

I'd bet the same is true of Star Wars items without the term.

 

I dunno. My impression is that a lot of people connect Sith with Star Wars villain.

http://whatculture.com/film/star-wars-10-greatest-sith-lords-youll-never-forget.php/3

Fair point on the toys.

 

I am preety sure that the Empire is led by the ISB in the ST. I think that Rebels will introduce us into the inner workings of the Empire. The Imperial squads will be led by Inquisitor trained force sensitive Commaders (Silver Elite Stormtroopers/Imperial Knights). I think that we will see in Rebels that the Inquisitors are an institution created by Vader, not Palpatine to help eradicate the remaining Jedi and scour the galaxy for force sensitives to recruit. This would explain the new troopers wearing armor that is vaderesque and the rumor that the burned pieces of Vader's original armor were build. Rebels and the new canon novels "Dark Lords of the Sith" and "Tarkin" will further flesh this out.
The good thing is that this can easily be explained in the opening scroll of the movie for all the normal people, while we geeks will have further background knowledge...

 

Couldn't that article have been written by fans, for fans?

You might it interesting that in my observation, many people call Anakin, "Luke".

 

You just really have it in for that word don't you?

Let's just agree to disagree on that one.

 

I have a long list of reasons for hating the word. PM me of you're interested in the reasons.

Alright.

 

Another way to interpret "force balance" is that once upon a time those strong in force had no knowledge (or interest) of "the dark" and/or "the light" side of the force. They were just strong in force, there were no Jedi or Sith. Then, Sith emerged, some of force users started to use only dark side of the force (because it was easier). Then, Jedis emerged to fight the terror of the dark side of the force. Hence, the prophecy/legend appeared that, there will be a time when one man will bring balance back to the force (and end the war).

[There were long periods when Siths were nowhere to be seen, yet Jedis knew that they can emerge, since they (Jedis) exist.]

So we had Luke, who became a Jedi but also disregarded strong advises/instructions by his mentors, both Obi-Wan and Yoda, and later on, allegedly, used the dark side of the force (as it gives him focus) in a battle.

Luke, if fulfilment of a prophecy, is using both the light and the dark side of the force (by the end of RoJ). After him, therefore, there are no more Jedi or Sith, and indeed they don't exist (at the end of RoJ).

The imbalance ended in RoJ. 30 years into the future, anything can happen (future is not written).

If for example, Luke succumbs to some oh his trials (which are not Jedi-Academy Trials, limited in number and time; but the real-life trials that last as long as you live), then he becomes a new Sith lord and we have a first class baddie for years to come... (until maybe he redeems himself at the end of Episode IX).

 

the above alternative take on the "force balance" thing is not from EU, may incidentally coincide with some of the novels/cartoons

 

There isn't.

Not all Dark Siders are Sith just as not all Light Siders are Jedi.

Anakin destroyed the Sith - the religion/cult with had upset the balance. There had always been someone to teach it but the only ones left who knew the ways of the Sith are dead.

Just like Luke wouldn't have been a Jedi without Kenobi and Yoda - eg. imagine Kenobi and Yoda had died before ANH and if Luke had somehow learned to use some of his abilities without them, he would be a Light Sider, but never a Jedi.

I want new Dark Siders too. So does darklordoftech.

They just shouldn't be Sith.

There is no reason why they'd pale in comparison to Sith - Lucas, Abrams and many other writers are capable of creating great villains.

As the PT and TCW showed, even non Force users can be a match for Jedi. It isn't like Luke is so powerful after RotJ that another if he encountered a Nightsister that they'd plus be no threat, after all he didn't actually defeat the Sith himself, he just survived the encounter.

Yes, Sith are the big enemy for the Jedi but that doesn't mean they have to to be in every story, eg. If every Batman movie had the Joker, every Sherlock Holmes story had Moriarty, etc. it would get old very fast.

We've had six movies and a six year TV series of Jedi vs. Sith (whether the word is used in the OT or not) and they lost.

Time to move on.

Time to explore the other potentials of the galaxy - TCW proved there was a lot more to the story.

 

Expanded SW Galaxy, as we see in PT (especially TCW), was greatly inspired I think (minus characters of course, and SW-specifics) by this phenomenal French space opera - Axle Munshine.

Anyone interested can find more info here:

http://vagabonddeslimbes.overblog.com/vagabond-of-limbo-episode-guide-english-version

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vagabond_of_Limbo

 

Edit

 

I don't think their religion was lost, I rather think we will get a kind of Sith academy where the Emperor sent all the force sensitive children he gathered during his rule (if he didn't put them in a grinder and made some midichlorian cocktails for his extended life and smoother skin... rather not)

 

And many don't think that - considering Star Wars is bigger than ever, I'd wager many more.

Not all Dark Siders are Sith.

There is no one left to ass on the teachings.

The Light Side didn't create the Jedi or their rules. Mortals did.

Just to clarify my position, I don't think only Lucas can make the good decisions.

New villains and heroes will keep the franchise fresh and interesting. Being the the "ultimate bad guy" doesn't mean they should be the bad guy every time.

The impact of Anakin's life and sacrificed is lessened if the Sith can return - they shouldn't be brought back after RotJ. And the they don't need to be. The arguments are perfectly valid as to why.

Can't be s Sith Ghost - the Sith have never achieved that because they only believe in "this life", not the next.

The others are plausible but void the events and impact of RotJ.

I disagree with what you say about the PT and there is no evidence that will Abrams and Kasdan will not "heed" events of the Prequels - but they won't need to.

In the ST and the stories that will come from the 30 years since Endor, Luke will have to deal with the legacy of Vader - putting right his wrongs, restoring faith in the Jedi, dealing with those who want revenge because of his father, etc. - and the impact the Sith had on the galaxy at large - but Anakin's story and the threads from the PT ended in RotJ - the balance is restored, etc.




As the the new baddies - 100% agree - Force powered or not

Agreed - just not calling them Sith is not enough.

They have to be very different.

The Inquisitor will show the way in which Sith and other Dark Siders are different.

Hopefully, he is just a weaker Vader with a big head, or just a Dark Jedi.

I'm hoping there is very little black costumes in the ST

This is the first time I've heard Lucas okayed changes or was even asked - others usually just try to put a negative spin on such stories.

Where did you hear that?

I don't get upset about the word but you are right, the movies don't reference so if this is a big OT club there is no reason to use it.

However, I want more from Dark Siders than just being not called Sith.

Star Wars is also no longer bound to supernatural forces being from the Force - Mother Talzin was not Force powered, she used magic and stolen Force power as I understand it.

Not nescessarily.

I know people who were not fans who knew the word was associated with Darth Vader, before it was ever used in a movie, but even more who still don't despite the fact it is in one of the titles.

I said it earlier but that is like saying pollution is necessary so nature doesn't get too pleasant.

Luke doesn't use light and dark to win in RotJ - unleashing his anger on Vader nearly ruined him, it was only by going back to the light that he had the strength to stop and challenge Palpatine.

Vader doesn't use use light and dark to end Palpatine - it is out of compassion and love that he overcomes his fear of his master.

 

I think the Inquisitor is a specialized dark side user, that was trained by Vader and/or Palpatine in certain techniques neccesary for his job. We can also presume that they trained others in other techniques. What made Vader and Palpatine Sith though was their training in all aspects of the Sith.

 

Then that nullifies Anakin's story.

His destiny was not to give his life for his son - it was his final motivation to act - but he was supposed to eliminate the Sith after one thousand of their evil doings.

What is the point if they come back after a couple of years?

And from the creative standpoint, it is just unimaginative. Star Wars is bigger than just the same villains.

The Sith can always be explored later, by cartoons, comics, spinoffs and books delving into the old history of Star Wars - but let the future of Star Wars be always something new to challenge the good guys - after all Star Wars is the ultimate fairy tale fantasy and the forces of good carry on while the evil ones fall.

 

In the promotional video to introduce the character and Jason Issacs as the voice, Pablo Hidalgo specifically states that the Inquisitor is not a Sith.

Therefore, Palpatine and Vader did not teach him the ways of the Sith - they thought him to use the Dark Side and that is not the same thing.