ST Who's The Baddie?

But by not having a continuation of the villains' legacy from the previous 2 trilogies, there is a risk that the entire ST will be considered a spin-off. And rightfully so.

 

Not at all - the Saga is the story of the Skywalker family. not the villains, and it begins with Anakin and his actions follow through into Luke's trilogy and the ST deals with the legacy or aftermath of what he did and Luke attempting to right the wrongs and passing on the torch to the next generation of his family

The only way I see that it becomes a "spin off" is if it was not to pick up the threads of RotJ at all or just jump to the main characters not being from the Skywalker family line.

 

As I said, they will not be trained as Sith but rather in select dark side techniques required for their purpose, like reading the minds and fears of his enemies with the Inquisitor. Vader and Palpatine would never teach em enough to become a threat to their rule. So the Sith Lords are gone, but their dark side acolytes remain.
Imagining thevillains for a possible ST was certainly easier before the PT and that damn prophecy and the Rule of Two...

 

Well, if a Dark Sider isn't trained as a Sith he isn't a Sith, but I (like others above) want more from a Dark Sider than just not being called a Sith.

The prophecy no longer applies - it is complete.

The Rule of Two no longer need apply either - Luke can train as many Jedi at a time as he sees fit. No Dark Sider is bound by the rule either - which Palpatine bent anyway - after Maul, Anakin was the only apprentice he really wanted - he allowed Dooku (who was just a pawn until Anakin was ready) to have Ventriss and Savage Oppress*

 

Though be did eventually demand Dooku kill Ventress.

 

Yes, because she was growing in power and he sensed she was going to be a problem.

I don't know the full background to the relationship - was Dooku actually given permission to have an apprentice or was it a secret but Palpatine found out, but allowed it.

I have the vague recollection that Dooku recruited Savage behind Palpatine's back, but I'm not certain.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Asajj_Ventress

Ventress was still in command on Rattatak when the Clone Wars began with the First Battle of Geonosis. After Echuu Shen-Jon killed Sev'rance Tann on Krant, Count Dooku, alias DarthTyranus, went in search of a new acolyte to serve as a commander in the Confederacy of Independent Systems. He traveled to Rattatak, where he was met by a waiting humanoid co-conspirator. As he sat beside the Count in a nearby observation chamber, this robed individual was silently and swiftly dispatched by a dark, cloaked figure who then took his seat. Dooku noted the presence of the killer, but initially voiced doubt about her combat abilities—until Ventress threw herself into a gladiatorial pit fight in the Cauldron and easily annihilated such foes as Blorga, Grunda Dolma, Nilo, L8-L9, Flalios, Jasper McKnives,Krutch, Anchor Blue, Swyy'm-Ee, and finally Giant Flog.[10]


Dooku applauded Ventress's talents, but she then went too far by declaring herself a Sith, and claimed that Dooku knew nothing of the dark side. Dooku decided to "enlighten" her. After rendering her unconscious with a blast of Force lightning and later defeating her in a duel, Dooku presented her to his Master, Darth Sidious, who approved his choice and ordered her to kill a certain Jedi—Anakin Skywalker. After her departure, Sidious told Tyranus that it was irrelevant whether or not Ventress succeeded. Either way, Sidious won. In fact, events turned out better than even he had planned. Not only did Skywalker draw on his rage, but Ventress survived and the Sith gained a valuable assassin.[11]

 

Made this yesterday night. That you may find liking in it.

 

I just get a blue box with a ?

 

That version is Legend now though.

However, I do think my believing Dooku tried to hide apprentices from Sidious must be incorrect - how could he when Palpatine was getting all reports of battle and intelligence through his office

 

Wasn't actually meant for this part of the forum... but ties in the the topic anyway I guess.
Here is where I actually wanted to post this: http://bit.ly/1nBcGKf

 

Let's talk about Shmi again.

Lucas notes: "Is Anakin a mutation?" Who's the father?" Why was Shmi "outcast?" It's interesting that her early draft last name was "Warka".

We know Gardulla the Hutt brought Shmi and Anakin to Tatooine when Anakin was three, "I think". Gardulla lost them to Watto betting on the pod races.

Where are they originally from? How and why did Gardulla acquire them? Was Shmi an outcast because she was pregnant outside of marriage?

We can also glean from TPM that Tatooine is a place outside the Republic. A place for those who wish to be hidden and out of the sight of the Jedi and the Old Republic.

Who are the Skywalkers and from whence they come?

And then the early drafts of ROTS has Palpatine telling Anakin flat out that he created him. Was this a lie? Undoubtedly it was said for the same reasons Palpatine told Anakin the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis. To convince him to become a Sith Lord.

Spoiler: Darth Plagueis Novel

It was late in the evening when Plagueis made his way onto a public observatory that provided a vantage on the proprietary arabesque of a landing platform on which Queen Amidala’s Royal Starship basked in the ambient light.
With the cowl of his hood raised, he moved to one of the stationary macrobinocular posts and pressed his eyes to the cushioned eye grips. Qui-Gon Jinn, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and the boy had arrived at the platform in a Jedi ship; Amidala, her handmaidens and guards, and a loose-limbed Gungan in an open-topped hemispherical air taxi. Just then the latter group was ascending the starship’s boarding ramp, but Qui-Gon and the round-faced desert urchin had stopped short of the ship to speak about something.
What? Plagueis asked himself. What topic has summoned such an earnest look to Qui-Gon’s face, and such confused urgency in the boy?
Lifting his face from the macrobinoculars, he stretched out with the Force and fell victim to an assault of perplexing images: ferocious battles in deep space; the clashing of lightsabers; partitions of radiant light; a black-helmeted cyborg rising from a table … By the time his gaze had returned to the platform, Qui-Gon and the boy had disappeared.
Trying desperately to make some sense of the images granted him by the Force, he stood motionless, watching the starship lift from the platform and climb into the night.
He fought to repress the truth.
The boy would change the course of history.
Unless …
Maul had to kill Qui-Gon, to keep the boy from being trained.
Qui-Gon was the key to everything.

Note that the discussion between Qui-Gon and Anakin, the one that Plagueis was so desperate to know but could not hear, was heard in TPM and centered around an explanation of midichlorians. Of all conversations for Plagueis to witness, it's about midichlorians. That's a nice bit of connection.

Concerning the vision: what are "partitions of radiant light"? Very poetic language. We understand everything else listed: "ferocious battles in deep space; the clashing of lightsabers; a black-helmeted cyborg rising from a table". It's like the light has been divided by darkness. If so, then Plagueis new the future and it didn't bode well. He go.

Qui-Gon was killed by Maul, as Plagueis states "is the key", and Plagueis, Maul and Qui-Gon were almost, and it says this in the Epilogue, killed simultaneously, albeit in different locations. Whatever Sidious was feeling after he murdered Plagueis (he attributed it to Maul after learning of his death) may also be related to Qui-Gon's own transformation. An inability on Palpatine's part due to his limited knowledge. This book also states, and this can be related to the earlier drafts of ROTS, that Palpatine wasn't interested in such powers, considering them a waste of time.

And the ice world Mygeeto? Kind of fun that ROTS not only mentions Plagueis in a pivotal scene, we also see the planet on which he was raised and his father, Caar Damask, administered. The planet that fueled the Death Star. An ice planet.

And Aborah, a volcanic island with a Sith laboratory? Who doesn't want to see that? That's certainly evocative of the genre from H.G. Wells to Ian Fleming. This idea is reminiscent of the picture of Vader with the body in the bacta tank. I wonder if Vader knew about Aborah?



This might actually be concept art rendering an early version of the carbon freezing chamber. A mash between the Bacta Tank and the Death Star set. Although this is from TESB, which didn't feature the Death Star. Looks more Empire structure that Bespin carbon freezing chamber. It might be interior to Vader's castle?

One thing I am certain of.... this is all leading to somewhere?

 

This is a very evocative image, at least for me. It certainly has the feel of concept art for the carbon freezing center. I could see this being Cloud City, even though it does look more Imperial in design.

It reminds me of an image from the old Marvel comics, Episode 63: The Mind Spider, where the big reveal at the end of the issue is that Shira Brie(pre-Luminya) is still alive and floating in a bacta tank on-board Vader's command ship. It's very similar to this concept art, so I'm wondering if someone at Marvel didn't get a peek at it before the issue was written.

I think it might be interesting if there was some force sensitive being kept suspended either in bacta or carbonite in some undiscovered lair of Vader or Palpatine. Not an apprentice, but someone with potential that they considered bringing along if something happened to the other but since both died on the Death Star, this unknown person was forgotten and is lying dormant somewhere waiting to be discovered.

 

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say that I absolutely don't want to see Sith. I said that I only want to see Sith if they're in the treatments and they appear in a way that fits the existing lore.

 

move along. these are not the droids you're looking for.

 

I didn't say you wanted to see Sith - I said Dark Siders, as the post you quoted states, I believe you did say it previously you wanted to see new Dark Siders.

If it wasn't you, I got the names mixed up. You're not the first.

So, in a sense, by wrongly saying that I said you wanted to see Sith, it was you who was putting words in my mouth.

 

i think we may see the sith. maybe not a first but a villain could discover sith ways.

 

I said that you made me seem more anti-Sith than I really am, not more pro-Sith than I really am.

 

No, the comment I was responding to was someone asking why there couldn't be Dark Siders*, I was explaining that you and I (people seemed to think we were against Dark Siders*) were not against Dark Siders*, I did want them - I said new Dark Siders* to differentiate with Sith - and so did you.

Earlier you made it clear you were not "anti-Sith" with this -

Or better yet, a secret apprentice, an ancient Sith who never died, or a Sith ghost.

You did make several references to not liking the word "Sith", which someone could mistake for anti-Sith if they didn't read all your posts.

So I didn't make you look pro- or anti- anything. I simply tried to explain we were not against Dark Siders*.

*Several times in this thread people are interchanging Sith and Dark Siders, as though they are one and the same, which, of course, they are not.

 

there are no sith ghosts.

 

I am hoping for at least a darksider in the new trilogy,

either a Sith or a dark Jedi,

I'm a sucker for a good lightsaber duel (it's what got me interested in Star Wars all those years ago in the first place, as I'm a sword enthusiast)

we need a battle between two competent people, who know how to weild one.

Unfortunately I have visions of an Empire officer picking one up holding his own *shudders at the thought*

 

I did point that out a few posts later

There will be Dark Siders in the ST.

The PT and TCW shows that non-Force users can hold their own against a Jedi - even win - put not just anyone.

 

A Star Wars trilogy without red lightsabers would be like an Alien movie without facehuggers or chestbursters. There will be at least one red lightsaber in the ST, the question is who and why.
The most recent rumors point to Adam Driver.

 

I wonder if all this "Sith can't come back because they are dead" stems from the audience being poisoned by knowing that Jedi can return before we saw them learn how to do it. Because Star Wars is so deeply part of pop culture, there are very few people who, even if they saw the PT films first, didn't already know that Obi-Wan comes back to Luke as a spirit when they saw the PT. I would imagine that seeing the films in order 1-6 the first time through, the revelation of ghosting would be different.

At the start of the PT, nobody knew how to return in any form after death, or that it was even possible, yet by the end we are give a foundation by which both Jedi and Sith were actively on the road to the discovery, be it by different methods.

By the OT, we see not only have the Jedi discovered that you can communicate with the living world after death, but that one can also manifest themselves visually.

Come the ST, and in the true Star Wars tradition of repeating themes and mirroring, it makes perfect sense that the Sith not only discover a way to return from the Netherworld of the Force, but to take it to the next level by returning in the flesh.

Did anyone who wasn't spoiled expect Qui-Gon to return? I doubt it. But we all knew that Obi-Wan had to learn it from someone at some point, and presumed we would who or how later in the PT. The point is, in the story (in order) we didn't know the Jedi could return after death until we saw it happen. The problem is that we take it as a given because we never knew Star Wars to be without returning Jedi because very close to everyone falls into one of two categories:

1. Saw the OT first.

or

2. Saw the PT first, but knew about Obi-Ghost.

We also know Star Wars to be without returning Sith because we haven't experienced it......yet.

As a story viewed in order, the seed is planted for a Sith return

 

The order in which the Saga is watch is irrelevant - the facts are laid out clearly.

Qui-Gon is the first Jedi to cross back from the afterlife, albeit, as a voice only because as he explains to Yoda he hadn't finished the training.

Lucas has been very clear - the Sith can't do it, they see beyond the boundaries of this life, they are materialistic - that is why they crave power in the here and now - once they are dead, they dead.

Vader dies along with Palpatine. The Sith are gone and there is no one to pass on the teachings to another.

There are no hidden Sith apprentices - the last of the Sith are on the Death Star. That is the significance of Luke going there to face them.