Speculation Who's The Baddie?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by fishtailsam, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion just as I am to mine. I think it is incredibly unlikely.
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  2. TheManFromMortis Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2012
    star 2
    _ _ _ _

    Same here. I started reading the Plagueis novel, but got sidetracked with something else and have, thus far, not gone back to it. If the explanation for his not having died and what he's been doing all this time is good enough, I think he could work better than a completely new villain who has no history in the saga and has never been mentioned. So, a cautious "maybe" from me.
    Last edited by TheManFromMortis, Mar 5, 2013
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  3. TheManFromMortis Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2012
    star 2
    _ _ _ _

    That certainly does leave open the possibility that we will see Plagueis in the ST.
  4. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4

    That history is part of the problem with the character though. Plagueis has been connected to Anakin's birth, and the Chosen one prophesy as a whole. The problem for Disney is, the "Virgin Birth" space messiah aspect of Anakin in the PT didn't go over well with the general public. It was one of the criticisms when TPM came out. Disney certainly is aware of that, and will distance themselves from that aspect of the saga. Plagueis is connected to that, on top of being dead. They aren't going to touch this character. Disney put a lot of money into this, they are going to put thought into how they proceed. This isn't Lucas's Star Wars anymore, despite what some believe.
  5. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

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    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    First I want to point out that you have no clue what Disney thinks about anything related to the PT so your assumption that they'll want to steer clear of it is simply your opinion. Second this is still very much Lucas' Star Wars since he is the one who came up with the story, wrote the treatments, and was most likely very much involved in hiring Michael Arndt to write the screenplay. Third since this is a continuation of the saga I would say that Plagueis' connection with Anakin is a big plus in his favor. We're dealing with very creative writers here and if they decide to put Plagueis into the story in any capacity I'm confident it will be well thought out and well executed. Fourth it is also very likely that Disney will have a hands off approach to this just as they did with Marvel (how many times does this have to be said) and will allow the creative people do their job.
    Last edited by Darth Chiznuk, Mar 5, 2013
  6. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4

    Buying Star Wars was a business decision, one they would have analyzed very closely before making. And part of that is going to be what worked with general movie audiences and what didn't. You say I don't know what they think of the PT. I do know, and so do you. It's their investment. And what do you do with an investment, you analyze it. The criticisms of the PT that I mention are a matter of record. This is simple, Disney wants their property to succeed. And they will have studied what has, and what has not worked with audiences in the past. That's just basic business.

    To ignore that, is to put your head in the sand.
  7. Lord Optimus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2011
    star 2
    Well said, I couldn't agree with this more.
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  8. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4

    The "Virgin Birth" of Anakin was one of the more highly critizised aspects of the PT, and that's a plus?
  9. Lord Optimus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2011
    star 2
    I don't think Plagueis is going to be the ST villain, I think it's going to be something completely new. So as far as you being right, you probably will be right and so will I, but we are here speculating "if" he is the villain or "should" he be the villain.

    You think there is zero chance of Plagueis being the villain, we get it.

    I guess I will just never understand why someone would hang out in this thread so often when there are so opposed to the idea of Plagueis being the villain.
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  10. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

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    star 5
    Um, but if we're strictly looking at this from a business perspective then the PT did extremely well. It created a massive new fanbase. I'm sure Disney knows that and it's part of the reason why they paid 4 billion to acquire it. They bought Star Wars not one half of it. To ignore the PT is to ignore a huge section of your fanbase and that's not good business sense.
    Last edited by Darth Chiznuk, Mar 5, 2013
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  11. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    I'm responding to posts, the same as anyone else. There is nothing to get. It's just as valid for me to discuss the negatives of bringing back a character like this as it is for people to discuss what they see as positives.

    I am free to comment on any subject I see fit.
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Mar 5, 2013
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  12. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    They won't ignore the PT, they will de-emphasise aspects that didn't go over well. The virgin birth is one of those. If you open the door to Plagueis, you open the door back on that too. Couple that with the fact that the general audience only knows him as a dead man from a tale, there isn't much reason to bring him back.

    They aren't going to go shining a spot light on the unpopular aspects of the franchise.
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Mar 5, 2013
  13. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

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    Oct 31, 2012
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    Sorry, but when people start acting as if they're opinions are fact that's when I stop listening and drop out of the conversation. None of us know what they're planning on doing for this trilogy. [face_peace]
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  14. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    You don't have to engage me in conversation if you don't want to, that's on you.
  15. Lord Optimus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2011
    star 2
    By all means you have ever right to respond the same as any of us, I will just never understand it. You wouldn't catch me hanging out in a "Jar Jar In The ST" thread since the very thought of Jar Jar in the ST would upset me.
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  16. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    I think the Plaguies character could be interesting to explore further, I just don't think the ST is the proper vehicle for it. As I said earlier, I think if these first few standalone spinoffs do well, a Plaguies movie set in a more appropriate timeframe could be very good.
  17. Lord Optimus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2011
    star 2
    Super hero team up movies didn't really work well in the past but Disney still took a hands off approach and trusted Joss Whedon and company to get the job done with Avengers.
  18. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4

    That isn't a good comparison though, because they spent years first doing the individual Avenger movies to build themselves up to the point that they could do that Avengers movie. All the individual movies did very well. They built up the goodwill to proceed. I wouldn't call that a hands off approach, either. It was a built in long term part of their business plan to make that movie.
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Mar 5, 2013
  19. TheManFromMortis Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2012
    star 2
    _ _ _ _

    I'm not a Plagueis fanatic either really. I was horrified at first when Disney bought Lucasfilm but, on reflection, I think they'll do a good job. I suspect Lucas' role will diminish with each new film.
    Last edited by TheManFromMortis, Mar 5, 2013
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  20. jasman Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 29, 1998
    star 4
    General Grievous wasn't a Sith, and he weilded lightsabers. So, it can be done.

    The Sith are gone, permanently, otherwise the previous 6 movies lose their meaning. There will be a major bad guy/bad guys, but they won't be Sith.

    jasman has spoken. :cool:
    Last edited by jasman, Mar 5, 2013
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  21. Rawne Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2008
    star 2
    Anakin Skywalker was just some dead guy from a tale too. Look how that panned out.
  22. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4

    That's a fair point. Is that a well they should keep drawing from?
  23. Lord Optimus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2011
    star 2
    Disney had nothing to do with the build up movies, Avengers is the first Marvel movie to be distributed by Disney.

    The build up movies to Avengers average 457 million dollars worldwide at the box office, while Star Wars movies average 718 million. The PT seems to be your basis for your argument, and those movies alone average 841 million a movie.

    To say Disney will let Marvel do their own thing and not show Lucasfilm the same respect doesn't make sense.
    Last edited by Lord Optimus, Mar 5, 2013
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  24. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4

    The point is the same, the property was building towards that movie. It was the long term business plan. You can't compare that situation to this one. Lucas's stated plan was for there to be no new movies, until he changed his mind when he retired from Star Wars by selling out to Disney. You are comparing apples to oranges.

    And what has Disney had to say on this subject? That they control the title, and are free to tell the stories that they want to tell. That's coming from them not from me.


    And let's be clear about this too, Lucas is taking a back seat. By his own choice.
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Mar 5, 2013
  25. Rawne Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2008
    star 2
    I don't know. I think Plagueis works better being dead from the point Sidious kills him. Makes it more tragic for me in regards to Anakin, that Sidious never had any intention of sharing his power. But having read the Plagueis novel and being told for years that the films are Anakin's story it just seems to good an opportunity to pass up. Meh, maybe I just want to see a gangster Sith lord.


    I just think discounting Plagueis entirely would be foolish and there's absolutely no reason to not discuss the possibility. The scene he's introduced in is one of the most memorable in the entire saga, not just the Prequels, and I think if they're going to go the Sith route again then Plagueis is an easy and simple choice rather than having to introduce an entirely new Sith, half the works already been done. He already exists and he's sufficiently different to the other main Sith (Sidious and Vader) to not be a simple retread.


    Whether I think it's a good choice to go back to it is pretty irrelevant for me. Personally I'd rather see something entirely new. But I don't think it's nearly as impossible as you seem to. Unlikely, but not impossible.
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