ST Who's The Baddie?

I would suggest taking days/weeks off from this forum from time to time and letting things rest. It's what I do until there is something interesting to talk about. I couldn't imagine being active in this thread for 2 whole years, speculating on what the villain would be. You could take all that creative energy and actually....create things instead of just worrying about Star Wars.

But at this point I feel pretty 'meh' the more I think about it. Below is my progression of feelings:

Inquisitors!? - OKAY!

Oh they're just Jedi hunters? - Sure....okay.

Jedi hunters in a galaxy where the only remaining Jedi didn't start a new Jedi order of any kind? - Um......huh?

^So maybe he no longer lives to hunt Jedi, but.. even the Sith seemed to have more to them than JUST eradicating the Jedi. How can they do a story that both combines the idea of no Jedi in the galaxy anymore, but also has a Jedi hunter profession? It's like I said in another thread, they are trying to do BOTH stories at once, and it's not making sense to me.

 

“Towards him they bend
With awful reverence prone; and as a God
Extoll him equal to the highest in Heav’n:
Nor fail’d they to express how much they prais’d,
That for the general safety he despis’d
His own: for neither do the Spirits damn’d
Loose all thir vertue; least bad men should boast
Thir specious deeds on earth, which glory excites,
Or clos ambition varnisht o’re with zeal...
O shame to men! Devil with Devil damn’d
Firm concord holds, men onely disagree
Of Creatures rational, though under hope
Of heavenly Grace; and God proclaiming peace,
Yet live in hatred, enmity, and strife
Among themselves, and levie cruel warres,
Wasting the Earth, each other to destroy:
As if (which might induce us to accord)
Man had not hellish foes anow besides,
That day and night for his destruction waite.”

 

I didn't spend the entire two years on this forum without any breaks. I was just saying that this forum has become much more fun since the Inquisitor leak.

 

As much as I like the Darth Bane trilogy (and I really do), I can't help but have that opinion, myself. The Phantom Menace novel tells us one thing, and Karpyshyn decided to tell us something else. Maybe Lucas had to set him straight because Brooks messed up the first time, or Karpyshyn had the creative freedom, that we all love and think that writers should have, and decided to come up with his own idea.

I liked the Bane books, but if I had one gripe with it, it was the whole concept of master teaching student so he or she is powerful enough to kill him. It's ridiculous and not something an evil bastard would ever risk doing.

 

Yeah....not really worth it to spend every waking moment worried about a movie that won't be out for well over a year. Your 8,000+ posts in the past 2 years indicate you haven't spent that much time taking 'breaks.' But hey, you're probably proud of that number, eh? (others might find it disturbing)

Anyway, I really don't care about speculation about the story anymore. I'm more concerned with how well the film is being made and just hoping its a lot better than the prequels. Since that's a fairly low standard, I guess I'll be pleased. :>

 

If you noticed, every sith after Bane wanted to loophole abuse the hell out of the rule of two, or just simply do away with it. Bane should have just compiled the Evil Overlord List. Much more usefull.

 

That's because the rule is stupid.

 

What other Sith looked for "loopholes"?

 

Is it not just "One Master, one apprentice"?

 

One Master. One Apprentice... with the understanding that both will probably try and replace the other... with the master looking at alternative apprentices and the apprentice themselves looking to find their own underling/apprentice. It can get quite messy... but it still adheres, in principle, to the ‘rule of two’.

 

Also:

 

It is as I understood it then / you phrased it better though

 

If the Rule of Two is followed properly, it seems to me that there could potentially be four Dark Force users at one time. Two Sith and two Sith acolytes. One being the future apprentice of the current apprentice once he seizes power, and the other being a potential apprentice to replace the current apprentice if the Master has decided his current apprentice is no longer worthy for whatever reason.

 

dark acolytes do appear in TCW i.e Ventress and Savage, but they're strictly not Sith.

 

Exactly. And any time there are more than two of them, two team up to take on the other. The two that remain, well, one will ultimately be more powerful than the other, resulting in a Master/Apprentice dynamic. This dynamic stays in place, until the Apprentice can find something to join him to take on the Master, or the Master finds someone to replace the Apprentice.

Since each individual Sith is always seeking power and dominion, the relationship of two, stays intact.

 

The only way to prove you have mastered your Mythic Martial Art is to overtake your Master. Thus, a morally weak (read: evil) Master is always looking over his/her shoulder and becoming more powerful with Secret Teachings to stay put.

 

Sometimes the old ways are the best ways.

 

Yeah, you've got
Palpatine
Dukoo
Ventress
Maul
Savage

All running around at the same time, not including grievious.

I really like the rule of two in practice (IE 5 darksiders) more than the theory. (2 darksiders)

 

Well, but there weren't that many at a time. There was Palps and Maul. Maul was believed dead. Palps and Dooku. Next, they recruited Ventress as a sort of assassin, acolyte, whatever, so there were three.. Ventress went rogue, so they recruited Savage instead, who was in secret a double agent and quickly went rogue himself. Later, Maul came back and joined Savage, who was killed by Palps. We never had more than three "sith" working together.

But still it is true, that not many sith took the Rule of Two seriously in Legends. Bane took up a second apprentice, Millenial founded a heretic cult on Dromund Kass, Tenebrous and Plagueis wanted to become immortal and Palps used clone bodies.

Another thing. The final issue of Sons of Dathomir was released today. SPOILER ALERT:
Talzin is dead. May she rest in pieces. I was kinda sad, to see the old hag go.
This means that she can be crossed off the villain list. Whoever it also increases the chance of Mother Ventress becomming a reality.
But more importantly, Maul isn't. The shadow collective has disbanded, but Maul is still alive, kicking and leading his mandalorians. The new Paul S Kemp novel might change things, but now Maul is still at large. It is unlikely that he can survive 50 more years but his continued existence proves that there are plans for the character. Maybe in Rebels, but definitely not as a servant of Sidious.

 

All of these issues and concerns about the Rule of Two just reinforces my belief that this new canon is not being used to set things up for the continuation of the core film saga. In the films, the Rule of Two is followed. Sure, both Palpatine and Vader have thoughts of bringing Luke into the fold, but not as an addition, rather as a replacement. This is because Luke is an important part of the core story told by the film saga.

These arguable examples of the Rule of Two being broken in the new canon (TCW) are simply a way to keep the audience interested and to give the powers that be different roads to take moving forward, and aside from the core story. Sith, both Master and Apprentice, are always on the lookout for someone who can better their own position in the Order. That is all that shows. Again, they did this in the OT with Luke. The things Ventress and Savage Oprah did have no effect on the core story. They were purposefully not Sith because the Rule of Two is part of the history within the storytelling.

Maul is a Sith dropout, just like Ashoka is a Jedi dropout. People who go to doctor school and don't finish are not doctors, but they can still to the things they did learn while they were students. The only difference is that Maul is relevant to the film saga, however, he served his purpose in Ep. I.

The core Saga IS just about the relatively small group of people, despite the fact that the story takes place in a vast galaxy with lots going on otherwise. You can liken it to Saved By the Bell where the show is about a handful of kids, but there is actually a whole school full that you don't hear about because they are not involved with that group of people. In this case, the new canon is telling the stories of the other kids in the school. If that's too lame a comparison for you, apply Beverly Hills 90210. Same thing.

As of this moment, nothing is showing me otherwise, so I don't buy things like a secret apprentice, Inquisitors, or "brand new" as the ST main villain.

Yes, there will be new things in the ST. New characters, new creatures, new ships, and new planets. Just not a new canon created main villain.

 

You may or may not realize this, but you're just using different language to say that there are two different continuities. When you say that the Rule of Two being broken in the TV shows has no relation to the Film Saga Sith, you're saying these are two different worlds. Your fixation on this is pretty annoying, and it's against the rules of the board as posted by EHT: See the Canon Policy Thread.

Moving on, speaking of news that relates to the single Star Wars continuity, the finale of the Darth Maul comic brings some interesting ideas back into play

Spoiler

Apparently Mother Talzin was a spirit. She could use the energy on Dathomir to maintain her spirit while she was able to drain the Living Force from others to reconstitute her body, and she even possesses Dooku in this final comic and begins draining his life force. So the priestesses are not telling Yoda the whole truth in the Yoda arc. Depending upon the right circumstances, a darksider can lose their body, become a spirit, become one with a powerful energy source, then reconstitute their physical form from draining bodies on regular basis. This reminds me of Darth_Pevra 's Force vampire idea that she posited all those months ago. It's now canon.

 

"To cheat death is a power only one has achieved"

Time to resurrect Darth Plagueis speculation....

 

So Talzin is/was Darth Plagueis ?

 

What do you mean?