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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Who's The Baddie?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by fishtailsam, Oct 31, 2012.

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  1. LunarMoth

    LunarMoth Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 27, 2012
    It was. Luke, like Qui Gon, naturally saw the flaws in what he was being taught and acted on his gut. He followed his insticts instead of orders or ideals. That is why he was successful.
     
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  2. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Of course, not everybody sees it that way. For some, Luke's lesson was "do what Yoda & Ben say, and be Detached" - expressed by his throwing his saber away.
     
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  3. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    You're making me miss the days when association with the Empire was more desirable than association with the Sith.
     
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  4. LunarMoth

    LunarMoth Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 27, 2012
    Yeah, but those people missed the fact that he did not do what they said. Even in that very moment. They never told him to sacrifice himself. He trusted in his love for his father and the good he saw in him.
     
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  5. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    In the first draft of ESB, Palpatine's cloak is gold. Might they reuse the concept of a gold-cloaked big bad?
     
  6. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

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    Aug 9, 2002
    Regarding Moorcock, probably depends on what we specifically mean by heroic fantasy. He's not (to say the least) a fan of any Star Wars or Tolkien, but he appreciates Leiber and recently had glowing things to say about the John Carter film. And even in his own work he wasn't entirely averse to standard hero stuff (see the Runestaff series).

    Sorry for the aside but I'm a bit of a Moorcock fan.
     
  7. LunarMoth

    LunarMoth Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 27, 2012
    I hope not. Gold Skeletor looked horrible in Masters of the Universe.
     
  8. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    A theme that I would love to see explored is that as much evil comes from following orders as comes from selfishness. The idea that all good people are selfless and all bad people are selfish is beyond naive.
     
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  9. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 31, 2013
    I'm not sure that was an actual theme of the films (if that's what you are referring to) re. evil = selfishness. I think it was more philisophical/nebulas than that... Did Anakin become Vader because he loved Padme too much? Nope, I don't think so. Did Anakin become Vader because he was willing to do anything to protect himself from his own fears? Probably... If anything, I think one of the messages was that to truly love someone, one must be selfless with that love. :)
     
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  10. DEATHCONQUEROR

    DEATHCONQUEROR Jedi Knight star 1

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    May 13, 2011
    Given the open-ending of "Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir", I think it would be a good idea if Maul came back, not necessarily as the villain or the main villain, but as simply a villain. He could be introduced at some point in the new trilogy ruling a revived Death Watch Mandalore (all the pacifist New Mandos are wiped out, thank god) as nothing more than a lingering regional/third power of the galaxy. He could have cameos & partial roles. He could be part of subplots by Disney and, as Witwer said, he's still "playing a long game".
     
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  11. Krueger

    Krueger Chosen One star 5

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    Aug 9, 2004
    I think Maul, if he ever returns in any film, should be in the rumoured Kenobi spin-off. Makes perfect sense, IMO. However, questions would have to be answered for all the audience members who wouldn't have seen TCW or read Son of Dathomir, of which there would no doubt be a lot. I can imagine that that would be a pretty big obstacle that might stop Maul from ever making an appearance in a film. Maybe in Rebels.
     
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  12. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Maybe a Kenobi spin-off could include Kenobi finding out how Maul survived ("his hatred" doesn't cut it).
     
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  13. Redimet

    Redimet Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 2, 2014
    It isn't just his hatred that kept him alive it was his fear of death as well same with Vader. The Sith think that a half life, a cursed twisted life, is better then nothing at all. There fear of death is why they will never truly live on after death as the Jedi can.
     
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  14. Darth Claire

    Darth Claire Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 21, 2012
    Gold cloak you say? I'm pretty sure Bronn here will tell you why that doesn't work

    Sorry I could not resist :p
     
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  15. plaidphoenix

    plaidphoenix Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 6, 2013
    I'm not so keen on Maul making an appearance in the ST. If he does show up it should be because someone had him stuffed and mounted on someone's wall.
     
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  16. Import_Jedi

    Import_Jedi Force Ghost star 6

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    Aug 20, 2001

    So true.[face_laugh] I think this also applies to Boba Fett...though his armor would probably have to be repainted after being awash in Sarlacc saliva and digestive juices
     
  17. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2012
    Here's how you handle the "obstacle" -- you embrace it.

    You join the audience's surprise with Kenobi's. That way the audience doesn't feel undue disconnect with the development.

    Then you could even make it part of the plot in some way -- Kenobi wondering how to kill Maul this time and make it final. Or we see that Maul is now able to practice the kind of healing magic that Talzin used to save him.

    From what I understand, it wasn't just Maul's anger and fear that kept him alive, but Talzin helping from a far, giving him lifeforce. So we could see something like this in the movie (Nightsisters appearing might work) and maybe Kenobi discovers how to destroy Maul without anyone interfering.
     
  18. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    That's how they could do it. But I still have to wonder how interesting this rehash confrontation would be in the end. I mean is Maul x Kenobi enough to stem an entire movie?
     
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  19. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2012
    Good question. Depends on who's writing it, probably.

    I'd be interested in seeing a rematch on screen. I'd like it to deepen things somehow.

    Maybe we see Maul track Kenobi to Tatooine? Maul has no loyalty to Vader and Palp, so no reason to tell them. Maybe Kenobi has another love interest who's killed by Maul?
     
  20. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    Dunno. We already saw another confrontation of them play out in TCW and for me that was enough. I don't really feel a desire to see Obi-Wan kill Maul a second time.

    It also seems like Maul's lust for revenge is now satisfied.
     
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  21. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2012
    Good points.

    My only possible response is those ideas might be good enough to warrant representation on the big screen. Or something like them.

    But who knows.

    I suppose it depends on how many rabid Obi-Wan and Maul fans out there would like to see such things. Supposedly there are a lot of them.

    EDIT: I guess I wouldn't mind watching it. Or maybe their rivalry becomes more complex, maybe in a surprising way?
     
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  22. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    We will see. I wouldn't rule out a fight against Vader as well. That's something many fans want to see - and speculate about - too.
     
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  23. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2012
    You mean Maul vs. Vader?

    What about a plot where Maul and Obi-Wan end up aligning for some reason -- against Vader?

    I suppose Maul would have to act as a stand in for Obi-Wan against Vader, since we have to keep Vader and Obi-Wan apart.

    Or is it truly impossible that Vader and Obi-Wan never squared off again between ROTS and ANH?

    Vader says, the last time they faced each other Obi-Wan was the master, etc. That doesn't necessarily mean they never fought again after ROTS.
     
  24. The Hellhammer

    The Hellhammer Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 4, 2012
    Well, to be the nitpick, Vader says "When I left you I was but a learner... now I am the Master." - which doesn't sound like a duel happened after ROTS. It is more like Vader is presenting his fall to the dark side as his own calculated decision, rather than saying "When you beat me, chopped me, set on fire and left for dead." :p
     
  25. TheBBP

    TheBBP Force Ghost star 6

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    Nov 6, 2012

    I'm tellin' ya... Made it up as he went along.
     
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