ST Who's The Baddie?

I disagree. A non-force sensitive Emperor who plays the force users against each other could be pretty intriguing and mysterious.

 

The limits of my imagination hinders and I'm trying to imagine it. We had a Sith Emperor who played the Jedi against each other....take the Force away = interesting and intriguing? There are two elements I'm reading into this:

1. Thrawn and Joruus love.
2. The Palpatine character in the earlier drafts of SW who was not a Sith, only hampered by ill advisors and kept away from the suffering and cries of his people. It reminds me of King Theodin and Wormtongue.

Anything could work well if done right, but I still think we're off the mark.

 

Exactly. If we are going to speculate about the villain, we have two choices:

1. Speculate based on what we know.

or

2. Speculate based on the fact that we have no clue what the production is doing.

Obviously the only thing we can do is speculate based on what we know, which should yield very specific answers and reasoning:

I think "X" will be the villain based on "A, B, C...."

or

I think the villain is going to be something completely new, and therefore, aside from a complete guess, I don't think can be figured out at this point based on existing material.

Then, of course, there is the approach of putting everything remotely possible on the table and arguing it's possibility based on statements like "You don't know that", which is what the vast majority of these 800 pages falls under.

 

It is interesting to watch someone who has no special abilities triumph only through will and guile. That's all.

 

I think statements like "anything can happen" is counter productive in the context of this threads question. It gives the appearance of an open mind, but ultimately undermines attempts at speculation based on the past cinematic record. We can only hope the writers of the ST stay true to the narrative mechanisms, style and elements of the Star Wars saga to date. Lawrence Kasdan, having written Episodes V and VI, definitely understands. I think JJ's a student, too, and understands the ethos of Star Wars, particularly from the perspective of the OT. Perhaps the creation of a narrative synergy between the OT and the PT is too much to hope for, but an 'anything goes' approach is perhaps less likely and, more specifically, not advisable.

Darth_Pevra: I agree. That's why I posted a Jedi runt idea here many moons ago. I want the protagonists to be as relatable as possible. Aspirational even.

EDIT II: Will and guile are special abilities. Palpatine had both. My question is 'what's the difference'? I would think the problem our heroes face should be as unique and enigmatic, Gordian even, as possible in order to make the audience doubt our heroes ability to overcome it. When they do, hooray for them.

 

They can't make the entire trilogy about force users (again) because that wouldn't be OT-spirit. Therefore there ought to be non-force sensitive villains, even in important positions. And it just so happens that we will see an Empire again. And Empires, at least in the eyes of most people, need an Emperor. Who is primed to play the role? Max von Sydow. So an Emperor role is pretty likely.

It is possible that this Emperor is force sensitive, but it is equally possible that he is not, considering that there will most likely be non force sensitive villains in important positionns. Either is very likely and more viable speculation than some others, imo.

One thing to keep in mind: Abrams' favorite film of the Star Wars sage is the genius ANH. And not only did it feature Tarkin as the main villain, it also focused more on the imperial admiralty and the military structure of the Empire than any of the other movies. A non-force sensitive Empire would totally be true to the spirit and the roots of the saga, the ever-classical legendary Star Wars.

Edit:
Additionally, if there is an Emperor, I hope that they would distinguish him from Palpatine. It wouldn't be very interesting if he were just Palpatine 2.0, the same force powers and all.

 

But at the end of the day a force-sensitive villain was the villain in the OT and the PT: Palaptine. If we go by OT logic, we should see an update of Palpatine. Tarkin, although I agree that his character is interesting, was destroyed by a force-sensitive, Luke. Darth Vader was the force-sensitive antagonist counterpoint to Luke and, I think more specifically, Obi-Wan. Vader survived. Did Vader disdain Tarkin, foresee the future and urge Tarkin to allow the rebels to escape with the technical readouts of the battle station, only to have it and Wilhuff destroyed? Tarkin warned that Vader's plan 'had better work'. Well it didn't. It wasn't the end of Kenobi or the Rebellion. It was a long day remembered, but for all the wrong reasons. I assume that holding 'Vader's leash' is not the rumor or impression that Vader wanted conveyed or spread. Bureaucratic in-fighting between Palpatine's minions were the Emperor's speciality. Vader ultimately saw Tarkin as a fool who put his faith in technology and raw material power. Vader, a true believer, believed in the power of the Force.

Luke was an aspirational character who had force ability and potential. Seeing his development and ultimate solution to the problem: faith, love and a moral imperative, is far more interesting, powerful, relatable, than using a kind of Force powers, all powerful solution. I completely agree with that.

I do hope and suspect we'll see something like Tarkin style villains again.

Edit: Re: Palpatine 2.0. I agree, but at the same time there must be a tangible familiarity. Left field, out of the blue, non-traditional wouldn't fit the bill. The character should be unique enough to stand on his own, yet familiar enough to fit into the SW ethos.

 

Tarkins flaw was the same one that Palpatine had: arrogance. In the OT, both were destroyed when they first appeared and fought the heroes (I don't count Palpatine in TESB as fighting the heroes). Interestingly, they both foresaw great triumph in their future, but ultimately erred and paid for it with their life. Aside from the force, they're pretty similar characters and play very similar roles in their respective movies. For instance, they both believe too much in the technological prowess of the Empire. They both like to mock their enemies. They are sadistic. When someone refuses their will, they react with a childish tantrum. It didn't hurt Tarkin's villainy that he couldn't use the force. Instead of the weapon of the force, another was given to him in form of the Death Star. Nothing forbids Abrams to give his non-force sensitive villain an equally impressive weapon.

You could say that Vader survived so long because he was more cautious and didn't underestimate the rebels so badly. Sure he delivered the line about "day long remembered" but he also urged not to overestimate the Death Stars capabilities and he was the one who organized the TIE-Fighter counter attack, showing that he understood the danger the Death Star was in.

Maybe we'll see a similar dynamic here, with MVS playing the arrogant villain and Driver playing the cautious one who survives.

 

I think that Palpatine overestimated the power of The Force. He depended on visions of the future that The Force gave him. He mocked Luke while using The Force. He failed to see something as simple as a father dying to save his son.

 

Something from the EU that I love is the mutated Massassi who serve Exar Kun. Should Plagueis or an ancient Sith be the big bad, I'd love for Massassi to be the villain soldiers of the ST.

 

In a perfect world, the haunting villain, whose voice is main feature in EpVII (apparently) would be something like this gentlemen....

 

Apparently?

And who might that be?

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Nihilus

 

Great picture.

 

I do hope that in episode 7 we get darksiders that are not sith (dark jedi, etc). Similar to how in earlier works of post ROTJ EU non sith darksiders were given the spotlight. Of course it does not have to be one or the other. You could have a few darksiders in episode 7 trying to create the sith order again (and following sith traditions) while also having a darksider who has no alligence whatsoever to the sith cause (perhaps a rouge ex jedi). That way we could also get darksider vs darksider duels without the sith fighting/killing each other. If the "dark jedi" route was taken, an idea would be that said darksider could be one of Luke's earlier students of his new jedi order who left the jedi. And to distinguish him (or her) self from your typical sith he can keep to his name (no sith name), not wear dark clothing, and of course not replace his light saber color with red when he turned to the dark.

 

At this point we've heard multiple theories or rumors about who the baddie(s) will be and I've just concluded I will get an idea when the trailer is released or at least a clearer idea to speculate about. My overall theory is that episode 7 will be a bridge builder of sorts that attempts to set up the rest of the trilogy to chart a new path. I still think we will have force users on both sides of the conflict, but most of them will be new.

 

Meh. Of all three Sith Lords in KotoR II, he was the least interesting. Sion was also presented as an unstoppable force but he had more going on in his noggin'.

 

I like Nihilus's look, but I'd rather they tone down his power. I can go either way with the personality.

 

There isn't much of a personality. Chris Avellone said as much because he wanted to keep him as mysterious as possible. It's probably why he only communicates in dark side speak throughout the game.

What I can see them doing is adopting his powers - but as a toned down version.

 

FWIW, DanielUK did use the words "something like".

 

I really like these ideas. I would really enjoy the ST if one of its plot threads had to do with newly formed darkside sects battling each other for supremacy. And maybe one of them is a group of new Sith, or Sith pretenders.

While I think it makes sense to look back at the previous movies or canon for villain ideas, it doesn't necessarily lead us in one direction as some think. Even if we just look at the films, we can look back and have all manner of ideas backed up by the evidence: Plagueis, apprentice of Vader or Dooku, Palpatine returns, a new Emperor, a crime lord villain, Luke's apprentice goes bad, a Solo child falls. Any of these options (and more) could easily be made to fit in the established themes of the films.

That's why I think we need to keep our eyes and ears open on the information leaking out, and the rumors too to see if they end up congealing around something we can hold on to.

As for a non-Force using villain, I can see that, but not as a main baddie. You know why Thrawn was able to manipulate C'baoth? C'baoth was insane. So if you pull for some kind of non-Force using big bad, then you also have to castrate the Force user they're manipulating in some way -- which I'm not really a fan of. I like more the idea that the non-Force user has some kind of technological terror -- whether it be army or superweapon -- that makes them a viable threat.

So far my favorite rumor is still Darth Ruin, because it allows us to return to the origin of Jedi corruption and the beginning of the Sith. Which is a nice, non-supernatural way of bringing them back.

 

There's no reason to castrate the dark sider if the non force villain controls an entire Empire and the dark sider ... himself and a handful of goons maybe. Control through power.

 

That's where the scenario begins to grow a bit vague and improbable or unbelievable for me. Although I'm sure you could cook up a believable scenario if you gave it a few minutes, I find it hard to believe that we could have a truly powerful, non-castrated darksider who allowed a non-Force using villain to "control them." Why wouldn't they just take the power? As a darksider, they would crave power more and more.

 

Palpatine wasn't Force-sensitive in 1977, yet nobody had a problem with Vader serving him.

 

It took Palpatine decades to become the Emperor of the known galaxy. If some random darksider pops up, why would the Empire suddenly accept him as ruler? Even in Star Wars it isn't that easy and that unrealistic. A hypothetical darksider would have to work up the chain and that means serving the Emperor, whoever that guy is. I don't know why there is this insistence in fandom, maybe created by the EU, that just because someone has great force powers everything will fall into his lap and all will automatically bow down to him and give him power for free. If a new Maul pops up and the galactic emperor throws 1000000 soldiers at him, Maul is dead. Palpatine is dead. Vader is dead.

What is more believable? That someone has to work for his position or that he is just granted it because mystical power etc.?

I'm also wondering who this sudden force sensitive Emperor is supposed to be. One of the inquisitorius? They were described as "attack dogs" and have zero political acumen.