ST Who's The Baddie?

I know but if they were so powerful they could have easily overwhelmed Luke and Vader in their state. But no its a good idea it be cool to see the Imperial Guards again.

 

I didn't say it, you did. Or someone/thing of his ilk. I like the idea of Darth Ruin and the origins of the problem. As long as the past is involved in moving forward in the narrative.

 

The "embedded in the past" part is the thing I don't like. The evolution of the Sith, as we know, the apprentice kills the master and becomes the master him or herself. Its a kind of only the strong survive scenario, where each next Sith is stronger than the one before.

Ergo, a Sith from the past would be about as challenging and menacing to Luke as that laser ball training thingy from ANH.

 

Now that I'm thinking about it, it would have been awesome to see them in action. They looked cool and all, but we only just saw them standing there.

 

I like the idea that Darth Ruin trains a new apprentice who then kills him at some point in the trilogy making him the new Dark Lord. And that isn't necessarily true, in the rule of two it worked this way but back before the rule certain Sith would not fully train their apprentices everything so as to make sure the apprentice would not be strong enough to over throw them.

 

But where has this Sith been? We already know they waited a thousand years to reveal themselves and regain power. So this ancient Sith just sat on the sidelines while Palpatine took over the galaxy? I find that hard to believe.

Don't get me wrong, I want an amazing new enemy, but I have a hard time with the ancient Sith thing.

But then again, I'm not a screen writer so I hope they do a great job with whatever.

 

How is an Imperial Guard to become a Sith without having his master to destroy?

Right, but you see an immortal Sith ends that model and becomes a counterpoint to immortal Jedi (Qui-Gon). They have achieved an unnatural power greater than you can possibly imagine. If an Immortal Sith Master was to have circumvented the prophecy, destroyed his greatest enemies in the process and we learned that they were at the root of the problem for the Skywalkers in the first instance, I'd say that's a dangerous threat. And that laser ball got Luke in the ass more than once.

 

It could be Star Wars because the Jedi served non-force users, but I'm saying from a dark side perspective the baddies should be force sensitive and powerful.

 

Their could be a million different reasons why maybe he has been frozen in carbonite maybe he is dead but his life force is latched onto a tomb or another object so that this new apprentice can then learn from his spirit. Maybe he went into unknown space all this time and has only now returned to known space maybe he learned how to cheat death? I could go on but those are some ideas not saying I like all of them but they are all possible.

 

Meh, the guards don't have to be Sith, per say, (although their master is already dead...) With all the talk of non-Sith and Inquisitors, it could be another angle.

Immortal Sith could be pretty sweet, but 2 things:

Where has he / she been??

If he / she is immortal, there's really no way for the good guys to defeat this enemy, is there?

But you got me. That laser ball did bite Luke a few times!

 

Great questions.

1. IDK. I suppose it depends on what's been happening in the last 30+ years. There's a number of plot devices they could use, but I'm no screenwriter either.

2. I don't think they would need to completely destroy this immortal, they might simply need to put the Jinn back in the bottle. Too, an immortal Sith would be one who might retain his physical body unnaturally. Destroy the physical body and the villain is destroyed.

Just some off the cuff thoughts.

 

I do like the idea. A couple pages back someone dropped an idea about what if the baddie was the force itself?

An immortal Sith could potentially be just that. Someone who has been around for thousand(s) of years and has become intimate with the force in a way that nobody else has been able to do, along with all its unnatural abilities...

But where the hell has this person been all this time?? Grrrr! That's the only thing that gets at me.

 

It might be interesting if he were guiding/influencing events from afar, to some intentional end. Keeping the GFFA in war and chaos. Promoting havoc and keeping up with the developments of the Jedi in general and the Skywalkers in particular. Patiently lying in wait for the opportune time. Palpatine appeared unawares that Luke was given aid by immortals, although in the end Luke rejected their view and blazed his own path. Who knows? Just spitballs. It would be cool of REBELS could shed light on larger and more impersonal events surrounding the pre-OT era. Who were Palpatine's enemies? For example.

 

Now that I like! The enemies of Palpatine!

We could have a situation where "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." That is, until they turn on the Alliance to seize power once more.

This I like...

 

In theory, the answer to where have they been in regard to Plagueis is quite simple. The theory is that he knew of the prophecy, directly or via foresight, and in order to circumvent it he allowed Palpatine to "kill" him knowing that his unnatural abilities would allow him to return after the prophecy was fulfilled. Now granted, this theory is based on the events of the de-canonized book, but as everyone has been saying, the now non-canon EU is ripe for the picking and elements from the Plagueis novel are not completely off the table in that regard.

So he would be waiting in the wings until after the events of ROTJ, which would be some years later, only to find out that Anakin left a bloodline behind that would be a threat to him. Then apply this theory to the rumors that Luke has been missing for a long time come Ep VII. It is plausible that he returns from the netherworld a reasonable amount of time before Ep VII and is responsible for Lukes disappearance.......

 

Why don't we go back to this interview with Driver from last month: http://www.hitfix.com/news/adam-driver-breaks-his-silence-on-starring-in-star-wars-episode-vii

Specifically this comment: "When you break all of those things down, really it’s just because someone wasn’t loved enough or felt betrayed"

We can't be sure but for arguments sake let's assume he was talking about his character. Let's say he was referring to his character's background, origins & motivation for being a bad guy. What are our thoughts on this? Can we take much out of these comments, or is it too generic & obvious in terms of motivation for any bad guy?
Could this be an interesting angle used to flesh out the character on screen, or is it just Driver's knowledge of his character's background prior to & separate from the upcoming movies?
Could he be the rumored bad guy with the aristocratic lineage? Would that align well with Driver's comments?

 

Aside from the fact that its said on screen that Plagueis is dead and its debatable if he was real or Palpatine just made him up for the purpose of the story...

This is kind of a cool idea. And I don't even like Plagueis.

 

Ask yourself this: If you killed someone, but you did not know that they had discovered a way to return from death, would you have said anything different than Palpatine?

Yes, he said that, and I'm sure he believed it, too. But we do not know if he was correct in terms of what methods he may have discovered that Palpatine was not aware of.

Also, in order to return from death, you have to die. Palpatine did kill him. I dont think that is in question. It's whether or not he can return from death that is unknown right now.

 

I'm just saying, if I knew what Palpatine did AND I was as powerful as he was... I'd make sure Plagueis was ground into burger, burned into ashes, scattered across the stars, etc...

Ask yourself this: If you thought your boss could cheat death and you wanted to take over, wouldn't you make sure the job was done right?

 

LunarMoth what is your preference for the way Plagueis would survive & continue to exist? Did Palpatine physically injure him? Did he just fake his own death, ie fake no life signs so Palpatine believed he was dead? I don't think so bcs that's not cheating death, that's playing possum.
I've asked this before bcs I think anyone who puts fwd Plagueis should have a plan for how the story plays out. These seem to be the most commonly proposed options:

1. He "resurrects" in the same body. Bit of an undead story angle. Raises the question of what Palpatine did (or didn't do) with his body after killing him to allow this.
2. His spirit survives & creates a new body (Voldermort style)
3. His spirit enters a new existing body (possession)
4. Reincarnation !
5. They avoid giving details & instead provide a vague wishy washy explanation (the Darth Maul method..."He survived on his hatred"!)
6. Something else?

 

Darth Lurker

lol, sure! But if we are going by what he says in the opera scene, he seems unaware that Plagueis could apply his ability to himself, thus he says what he says. This, of course, if Plagueis can do so.

Darth_Downunder

Although I don't think we would see it happen, I would guess that it would be something close to #2 in the literal sense. I wouldn't want to see a ceremony like Voldemorte to bring the body back, but I could see it simply materializing via the Force.

 

Don't get me wrong, I LIKE your idea / theory! I'm just not a fan of Plagueis. IMO, he's glorified EU, which I'm also not much of a fan of, lol.

 

Fair enough. I'd agree that if he did come back that would be the best choice. That would certainly be a game changing development for Star Wars. If Plagueis can come back in a real material sense then it raises the same possibility for other characters like Yoda, Obi-Wan, Palpatine or...Anakin!

 

This doesn't make any sense anymore. By your logic, anyone who serves someone else is castrated. Heck, it's obvious you just run out of arguments.

I wonder how you swallow TPM with the "castrated" Palpatine who serves the queen or ANH and TESB with its "castrated" villains.

Nobody can just take power to themselves like that. That's comic book logic and I don't want to see Star Wars devolve into one.

 

"How did you swallow a castrated Palpatine". There's a question for the ages.