Speculation Who's The Baddie?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by fishtailsam, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. The Bops Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2012
    star 1
    That is actually one hell of an idea. Normally, I would cringe at something like this, but it makes a ton of sense.

    Well done Sir.
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  2. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I understand that the brain loves to categorize people. In a diversity course I took for work, we discussed that--our brain's natural tendency to want to categorize people is the reason we form stereotypes about groups of people.

    However, that doesn't mean the stereotypes themselves are any less ridiculous or any less of an attempt to marginalize people who don't fit into the "mold."

    Just because we have the tendency to behave in a certain way doesn't mean that we should.
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  3. Darth Claire Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2012
    star 4
    Lets have Siri, Glados and Hal join their evil forces to rule the galaxy :)
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  4. Darth_Downunder Chosen One

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    Aug 5, 2001
    star 4
  5. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Yes, and as you should notice, I didn't say such a thing.

    I don't understand what using a template in fiction has to do with stereotyping in real life. Most artists are aware that a base outline is ... a base outline, a starting point, nothing more.
  6. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    It doesn't have to, I was responding to run_luke_run's statement that all people can be categorized into distinct personalities and that there are only four parenting styles.

    Let's just say that if this is how psychotherapy is run, by attempting to categorize people as opposed to treating them as individuals, my opinion of the subject has dropped dramatically.

    I mainly addressed your point on the templates because your initial statement on it was to tell me that what I would like to see in the ST, a unique villain, one who isn't recognizable from past stories, "doesn't work." I disagree, and we can leave it at that if necessary.
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  7. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Thats kinda what I meant (just look at my avatar) but I'd also like to see a Ventress type character, not as weak as Ventress was in TCW though. A strong Sith woman who runs through jedi like a samurai sword through butter. It'll happen eventually if not in the ST then in spin offs.
  8. run_luke_run Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2004
    star 3
    I don't know any psychotherapists (personally) that do not treat everyone as individuals. The field of Psychology and the various fields of psychotherapy are two very different things. Incidentally, I'm not a psychologist, I'm a Marriage and Family Therapist that happens to teach psychology. :)

    I'm sure the villain will be unique in many respects, but I would hate to see Star Wars turn its back on its mythological roots (Campbell, et. al), and with Lucas having provided the core of the story, I highly doubt that will happen.
  9. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Psychotherapy. Pfft. Anna Freud (Freud's daughter) was the founder of child psychotherapy. She used one of her friends kids as case studies for her work and had them in 'therapy' since early childhood. They all committed suicide as adults. It works! Then we have 'pioneers' like this:
    http://www.amazon.com/The-Crowd-Study-Popular-Mind/dp/0486419568
    Last edited by Darth kRud, Mar 23, 2013
  10. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 7
    The strange thing about the saga as a whole leading into a new villain is that the 2 central "evil" figures spanned the evil-o-meter from "there is no conflict" to "nothing but conflicted". It isn't like we haven't been given both polar ends of the spectrum already, so it is quite interesting to see where the new enemy lands on the conscience scale.
  11. DARTHSHAME Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2003
    star 4
    I just read this spirited debate and can note good points on both sides. As a therapist you are aware that there are a multitude of theories on personality. There is no universally accepted theory. Ultimately, I think Anakinfansince1983 would like to see a villain who is not simply from central casting. I agree that we should have a villain who has a motivation that has not been seen before or at the least seen rarely in fiction. I think that motivation is one of the underlying influences on personality. As human beings we are all motivated by certain core things, in varying degrees (i.e survival, hunger, lust, etc). We have these archetypes over the centuries, because we can relate to underlying feelings and motives of these characters. That being said, these archetypes, personality theories are all human constructs developed to explain behavior. I would tend to agree with Anakinfansince1983 that it would be presumptuous to suggest that we have explained every personality in the world.
  12. run_luke_run Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2004
    star 3
    I would like to think we've come an immense way since Anna and her father. :)

    Indeed, the psychology of personality is a whole field in and of itself, with countless combinations, possibilities, and sub-types within sub-types even with a basic theory like the "Big 5" trait theory I mentioned above. That said, it's also a bit presumptuous to assume that due to its complexity that it cannot be measured, or that people don't have tendencies and easily predictable behaviors that allow them to be classified into a general category.

    Frankly, I think all we need for a good villain is a fairly well established personality type; the psychopath. Of course, some of you won't believe that anyone can measure this. ;) Who knows, maybe you're one?



    It is, but I think it depends on where the starting point is.

    From the Darth Plague text, one could argue that Palatine has psychopathic tendencies before he was trained as a Sith. Anakin, on the other hand, was certainly not...so unless we know the origins of the villain it will take time to tell, which is probably how it should be anyway. We have three films to play in.
    Last edited by run_luke_run, Mar 23, 2013
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  13. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Psychopaths? Like the doctors who are basically pharmaceutical reps pushing crack laced meth on 12 year olds? Yep, we've come a long way since Anna and Sigmund. Sorry, I'm an old student of Foucault :) I prefer to focus on the social causes of certain issues while at the same time questioning institutional power - be it the government, economy or, well, psychiatry (which is entwined with government and the economy). What if in the Star wars galaxy everyone was taking little red pills like some sort of Brave New World scenario? We'd think it a bit strange yes? SOMA for everyone, never mind addressing why so many people are miserable (which when done is usually from the perspective that the individual has the problem rather than social relations manufactured from the economic base being the source). What I'm saying is capitalism is why so many people are miserable. TV, hyper consumerism, non stop drudgery at work under the division of labor etc. Just take this pill and go on!

    Last edited by Darth kRud, Mar 23, 2013
  14. Pro Scoundrel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 4
    So anyway, who's the baddie? :)
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  15. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Scientology?
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  16. Pro Scoundrel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 4
    I like this train of thought. :)
    Xenu vs. The New Republic!
    Last edited by Pro Scoundrel, Mar 23, 2013
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  17. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Staring Tom Cruise and Travolta. Star Wars VII- Battlefield Earth. Sorry about my above rant. It was a bit harsh :)
    Pro Scoundrel likes this.
  18. run_luke_run Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2004
    star 3
    It wasn't too harsh, it's an opinion that a lot of people share about the field.

    Incidentally, I don't prescribe medication. And it's wonderful you focus on the social causes...someone needs to...but in order to actually help someone you also have to embrace a biological and psychological viewpoint as well, and marry those two with the social. Neglecting those and focusing solely on social causes is just as bad as a doctor who only "pushes" meds onto a 12 year old, focusing only on a biological perspective.

    There's just so many variables out there to play with, but I'm hoping for more of the conflicted sort. Anakin's character was much more deep and interesting personally to me because of it. With Palpatine, you knew he didn't give a hoot about anyone but himself. With Darth, I'm still rooting for him to make a different choice every time I watch ROTJ with him talking to Luke after he is taken prisoner.

    His reaction to Luke telling him that "my father is truly dead" is a great moment, and makes one wonder just what is coming.

    Since we're going to be dealing with kids of the Big 3 in some way (I'm assuming)...I'm betting they're involved rather directly in the villain's plans.
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  19. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    The villain will be Rick Berman and Rick McCallum merged into one being: BRICK MCCALLUMAN
  20. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
  21. DARTHSHAME Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2003
    star 4
  22. DARTHSHAME Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2003
    star 4
    Sorry for the double post.
    I am in the science world, so I actually think the opposite and believe that with enough study that we can classify many things despite complexity. I am just acknowledging that at the present time a consensus has not been reached on personality types. In terms of measuring psychopaths, we tend to know one when we see one. :p
    Last edited by DARTHSHAME, Mar 23, 2013
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  23. GODLIKE Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2012
    star 1
    What if this super powered god villain sets up a tournament where he forces all the most powerful people in the galaxy to fight each other and the winner eventually getting a chance to face the villain.
  24. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    What I loved was the interaction between total evil (Palpatine), tragic evil (Vader), and good (Luke).
    run_luke_run likes this.
  25. Hunter Skywalker Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 23, 2013
    Thrawn throughout the three, while Jacen Solo transitions into Darth Caedus. Unfortunately, should the original trilogy cast be returning, that scenario would be impossible.