ST Who's The Baddie?

Just watched it on Netflix two nights ago

 

I find that after a few Plagueis's, it's best to call a cab.

 

Anytime I make it a Plagueis night I spend the whole day influencing the mediclorians to cure my hangover.

 

Because somebody asked a couple of pages back, here are the passages in the canonical Tarkin novel where Plagueis is mentioned

 

I´m surprised to see how some of the core ideas and concepts of the Plagueis novel have made the cut into the new canon. Meaning the idea of Plagueis altering the Force, creating life, and being alive until shortly before the prequels is everything canon.

 

That was a given - Luceno wrote the Plageuis novel too so it was that old EU would incorporate ideas they had in the old continuity.

I hope it doesn't get out of hand though - the last thing we need is writer's ego getting in the way.

 

Strange that a novel such as Tarkin, like pretty much everything else, puts all stock into Palpatine as the most evil and powerful Sith that it lends nothing to the idea that something potentially bigger could be out there.

The passages from Tarkin posted above don't necessarily discount the idea of Plagueis returning, but all sources surrounding Plagueis sure do make him seem like he was a chump and idiot for succumbing to Palpatine and that Palps was the be all and end all in Sith lore.

 

I would like to repost what Kyle from The Cantina posted back in September about Driver´s character. I believe it is the first time anyone said Kylo Ren to be part of an Imperial aristocrat family, and that he was obsessed with Sith artifacts.

Mind he said Ridley is Luke´s apprentice, Boyega is running out of Driver, and Han and Leia´s kid is Gleeson. One of these things could be false.

 

Driver is definitely in all 3 movies. That is an old rumor and speculation and is completely bunk.

 

Yeah. We knew Luceno would mention him. Since it's a villain centric novel that features the Emperor, it made it even more likely that he'd be referenced. Also with a character like the Emperor, he's often alone, scheming or reflecting on past, current, and future events. A bit of room opens up for a few name drops. The upcoming novel, Dark Lords of the Sith will no doubt bring him up too.

According to interviews, Luceno said that he wanted the takeaway from the Plagueis novel to be that Plagueis was a wise and powerful Sith Lord who unfortunately got involved with a human. Humans in AGFFA are unpredictable according to Luceno. Plagueis couldn't see past Palpatine's false flattery etc.

I think it was his way of explaining why humans are so dominant in our story. But also Lucasfilm was very protective of the character of Palpatine. They saw him as evil incarnate and didn't want the Plagueis novel to pull back the curtain on him too much. The book was actually cancelled at one point.





That Tarkin novel is interesting because it sets up a different goal for the Emperor. Something which really had never been discussed in the past. Before the prequels one might say that Palpatine just wanted to be Emperor. After the prequels one might say that he wanted to be Emperor of the galaxy and live forever. Now they're essentially saying he wanted to be God of the universe. "Influence of the ultimate sort."

Does it tie in with the sequel trilogy? Is the new villain after this power too and Lucasfilm wanted us to know that Palpatine, Mr Evil Incarnate, didn't lack imagination?

The Tarkin novel also sets up some sort of potential climax to Palpatine's goals. He says he wants to bring Vader to the Sith Temple once the death star is complete. Perhaps having to do with one being the bait for the dark side and the other being the vessel. But this essentially stalls his goal doesn't it? It's a 15 year wait from the Tarkin novel. Isn't he worried about dying from natural causes? Also what happens once the Death Star is complete? Luke Skywalker destroys it. Does his plan change then? Is this their way of saying he would have achieved his goal had Luke Skywalker not entered the picture? Then instead of bringing Vader to the shrine, he wanted to bring Luke? Or will there eventually be a story written about him bringing Vader to the shrine? What happens then?

 

True: That is an old rumor & speculation.

However... to say he's "definitely in all 3 movies" & it's all "completely bunk" is just speculation as well. Your insight is no more valid than his or most anyone else's on this board.

 

Maybe the shrine is home to our baddie who awakens?

 

Well the shrine was hidden beneath the Jedi Temple. Some Jedi knew it existed but thought it was contained. As the balance in the force shifted, the darkness crept upward into the temple. When Sidious took over, he made the shrine his lair and incorporated the Jedi Temple into the Imperial Palace. He had been the first being to step foot in the temple in five thousand years. The novel said there were other sith temples in the galaxy. Probably like the Dagobah cave. I think it's mainly having to do with it being a spot concentrated in the dark side of the force. It's a place where if you dabble in dark sorcery, you should get better results.

So it may have been a nod to another location in the galaxy. It might have been the novel simply stating that Palpatine knew the best place for his lair would be at a Sith shrine and Luceno thought that was the best place for one. So that if a villain in the ST uses one, there will at least be some sort of story in the canon saying that Palpatine wasn't completely oblivious to such a tool or power.

 

The BIG question regarding Plagueis is just how canon is the novel about Plagueis and how much TFA could get away with changing that source material and sticking with the movie only?

It seems that if the Plagueis novel is 100% canon, it's going to be REALLY hard to link the baddie of TFA to the entire saga. If you cannot use Plagueis, cannot use Palpatine, cannot have anyone more evil and threatening than Palpatine, and not use anyone from other past sources like Bane or Ruin or Revan, then there's little room to link the entire saga together without doing something SO contrived it comes off as forced and awkward.

 

Well as long as it all helps the flow of the story and isn't just Luceno unable to let go of his previous work.

 

Maybe Luceno needs the money?

 

95% sure Plagueis is the big bad and the Luceno novel will be regarded as canon in the new universe. Lucas had a plan for the continuity of the saga and Plagueis was the answer. That's why he had a hand in the creation of the novel before he sold off his sequel treatments to Disney. He's no dummy, maybe in terms of directing movies... but as a storyteller and businessman, he's tough to beat.

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0051...S=1&pc_redir=T1&noEncodingTag=1&robot_redir=1

 

IF they use Plagueis then I bet it'll probably be entirely different from the book. Since it appears that they are already not using major characters from the EU (I mean...no twins, Anakin Solo, and Ben as far as we can tell) then I dont think they'd suddenly go "Well we've ignored all these major EU characters and plot/character details....but we have to be completely faithful to this book that the general audience is most likely unaware of".

 

Not to mention a handful of credible non-Force using villains like Thrawn.

 

The rumors about Sith artifacts, the Sith shrines and temples around the galaxy now as canon, Plagueis mentioned in the Tarkin novel is leading me to thinking Plagueis as our baddie pulling the strings behind the scenes. I'm curious to see if Plagueis information will be in the Lords of the Sith novel coming out next year. The real trick is explaining what Plagueis was doing during the OT. I'm sure that's what the flashbacks and Sith history will take care of when it's explained in TFA.

 

If this new information about Adam Driver not being a Sith Lord is true, it essentially just makes him a Dark Jedi then even if he does not have all of the formal practices behind him.

 

I like this idea. He could be a descendent of Count Dooku. I think it would make for a good start for the new trilogy. I do think Driver will be in all 3 movies though. Sorry I haven't posted all day, I've been recovering from playing the Plagueis drinking game.

 

Have you not read the Plagueis novel? His "death" scene is not entirely from Palps POV. In fact, there are strong portions of it that scream "If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine!."