ST Who's The Baddie?

Then who do you bring back after Plags? Is that what we are going to get every 3 episodes. Oh he wasn't really dead for every new trilogy till all the old Sith are recycled. I'm sorry but if no one dies its boring. I guess in Episode 20, uh oh Sidious wasnt really dead. He really did outsmart Plags. Good Grief!

 

Nah, I think if Plagueis is the villain, he will be the last of the Banite Sith, and if there are episodes after IX, they will probably feature more "villain of the week" scenarios that you'd see in Indiana Jones and James Bond. That's just the feeling I get from what they've said so far, but Episodes 1-9 will be consistent in regard to this one family vs. this one Order of Sith Lords, with Plagueis (or whoever the main ST villain is) being the last of them.

 

That would be the problem no matter who is the villain. Whether it's Plagueis, Sideous reborn, or someone new, there could (and would if they keep it going) be someone else. Any franchise can say the same thing.

The difference, however, between Plagueis and Sideous is that we saw Sideous die in ROTJ. We only heard what Sideous said about Plagueis in ROTS. Both Voldemort and Sauron had their first "deaths" prior to their franchises and their initial downfall was told in backstories-both in book and film. Star Wars doesn't lend itself to flashbacks and much backstory outside someone telling it to someone else in the movies.

None of this would even matter whatsoever if Sideous hadn't told Anakin that Plagueis learned to cheat death, thus making his murder very suspect. And Sideous even told Anakin afterwards that he didn't know how to do it.

So either (a) Sideous lied about Plagueis learning to cheat death (b) Sideous lied about killing Plagueis (c) Sideous thought he truly killed Plagueis but conveniently forgot that Plagueis knew how to cheat death (d) What Sideous said was true, thus meaning that Plagueis was pretty damn stupid for leaving himself vulnerable to Sideous after learning the secrets of cheating death. Hence, his name Plagueis the Wise was a poor title.

But if Plagueis does come back, then his finality would need to be based on more than shooting Force lightning at him or sticking him with a lightsaber or knife or even blowing him up. There would have to be a a way to defeat him based more on the intricacies of the Force itself. That may be a difficult one but would be up to Rian Johnson who most people have faith in creativity to do so.

 

I wonder if we would be having this debate if the Opera scene had never happened and we were left to wonder who, if anyone, was Sideous' master. Did Sideous have a master? What happened to Sideous' master? Who is this Plagueis that appears in TFA? Why didn't George introduce him in the PT or the OT?

 

Do we honestly need anymore Sith?

There are many other Dark Force users other than the Sith. One which isn't discussed that much is a covenant of Sith witches. Mother Talzin is always trying to usurp power by finding Dark Force relics. Who says that not after the death of the Emperor, the inquisitors went to seek out someone new who was very strong in the Dark Side to serve or were corralled into serving them also.

 

Because we all remember when Palpatine being a clone of Sidious was deemed canon after Episode 1 or 2.

 

Then with this logic, any Dark Side user with a red lightsaber could be the villain. It doesn't need to be a Sith, it could be a Dark Jedi, Inquisitor, or anyone.

 

Yeah, I don't know about anyone else, but as a kid lightsaber fights were the main draw of Star Wars to me. That has not changed. I love the Jedi/Sith side of Star Wars more than the Used Future/rebels with hearts of gold stuff that it seems most Star Wars fans like. Look at my avatar, for goodness sakes, it's Palpatine and Luke fighting in Dark Empire.

 

Ah, but is any non-Sith Dark Side force user automatically going to carry a red lightsaber?

 

Very true, and it's the same with kids. They see red lightsaber, they see Sith. They know Jedi vs Sith and they are more than happy to see that conflict play out again.

 

Yep, they could very well. I don't think it's going to matter if the villain uses a red lightsaber or not. Both Anakin and General Grievous in ROTS are examples of this.

 

Yep, they could very well. I don't think it's going to matter if the villain uses a red lightsaber or not. Both Anakin and General Grievous in ROTS are examples of this.

 

It's really more to do with the iconography and imagery of these things rather than anything else. It's SW shorthand of, broadly speaking, blue/green lightsabre means hero and red lightsabre means villain. Yep - I think general cinema goes are less hung up on the quasi-religious distinctions between the Jedi and Sith... but why make it more complex with dark/grey force users??? Ths of course doesn't exclude the notion of factions or would-be/proto-Sith and Jedi... but anything else I think just muddies the water for audiences.

 

Exactly. It's really only some of the hardcore that cares about these kind of specifics, and they're the people that are borderline impossible to please anyway. The film needs to work as a Star Wars film for general audiences first.

 

If only 'hardcore' fans worry about these kinds of things then why the need for the iconography to be consistent? It's like the feathers debate in Jurassic park. Quality and artistic freedom are more important than absolute continuity. It's funny how changes in that regard are only favoured after the fact. For instance, If continuity is so important then why do so many people prefer the 'new' Emperor? It's a double standard that favours a non chronological outlook.

 

I have no idea what your point is

 

Somewhere that got mixed up, I think... If Plagueis is not a villain in TFA/the ST, then maybe the novel will be canonized.. Leaving it Legends leaves the door open for Plagueis to be in the films more than if the book was canon, doesn't it?

 

I think Plagueis deserves to return but the EU plot on his life collides with that I wonder what actor could play him, maybe Benedict Cumberbatch those sharp eyes & his head shaved might fit the part just saying.

 

Well, yes.

The Prophecy of the Chosen One was one of the most oddest inclusions into the Star Wars canon; completely changed the narrative and dramatically altered the OT.

 

I've always loved the prophecy of the chosen one – but the way I interpret it was the fact that Anakin was not the sole chosen one per se, but rather Anakin thru his son Luke. So the prophecy being interpreted more by the Skywalker family bringing the force back into balance, rather than just Anakin. Honestly, the way the prophecy is written, the chosen one could be either Anakin or Luke.

For this reason, I love when Yoda says "a prophecy that misread, could have been…"

The prophecy said that the chosen one would bring the force back to balance, but it didn't say how – or how long it would take.

I don't know that this would necessarily happen, but I wouldn't mind some kind of reference to the chosen one prophecy-at least briefly-in the ST, if not TFA.

 

Exactly. Kylo Ren having a red lightsaber means he follows the ways of the Sith. If he was just a dark Jedi that dabbled in evil, then he'd have a gold or black saber blade or something like that. Then we'd all be freaking out wondering what the unique color of his blade means. But it's red, and that's a very intentional decision, and SW history tells us that this means he's a Sith.

 

Thinking about it logically, would Disney have abandoned the entire EU (as opposed to just the post ROTJ EU) if they weren't planning on specifically contradicting some elements of it?
When you look at how intricately plotted the PT era EU was (for example, the way that each PT film was part of its own thematic trilogy, more or less, like the Labyrinth of Evil/ROTS/Dark Lord series) there would have been some discussion about the merits of keeping it.

Bearing in mind what we know is rumoured, I think it's not so ridiculous to guess that it's not so much that "hey - now the EU is compłetely non canon, I suppose Plagueis could come back", but that it's entirely possible that the EU has been thrown out SPECIFICALLY to allow for having a baddie in the ST who was discussed, and named as an incredibly powerful Sith, in episode 3, but who was killed off "off screen" in the pages of an EU novel.

Otherwise, why would they not have simply said "all post ROTJ material will be classed as Legends"? Is there anything else at all written in the last 15 years, set before ROTJ that seems likely (or even able) to be a limitation on the ST?

 

Me too... and I've always been intrigued by the 'son of the suns' line... The prophecy, IMHO, is all about Anakin AND Luke.