Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by Darth Archimage, Oct 17, 2013.
A Serbian Film is in fact NOT a better love story than Twilight.
Anakin's a psychologically realistic character. At least in the sense that he doesn't do anything that's inconsistent with elementary psychology.
If the aim was to show someone with a crippling mental disorder, then sure, success!
But according to Lucas the reason he fell were the attachments he had. And this shows how little the maker understands about basic human psychology.
You're obviously not too literate in the topic, then. This is easily remedied, however; there are a good many layperson-oriented books out there, for instance, this one.
I don't know what my statement has to do with this. According to binding theory, a lack of attachments can have severe consequences. Yet that is what the Jedi preach. You shall not be attached, then you will be one with the force and get into Jedi heaven.
I was thinking of one more specifically related to Anakin and Padme.
Yeah. Like I said in the Legacy of Darth Vader thread, the Jedi, particularly Yoda, let Anakin down. He went to Yoda when troubled about the dreams of his loved one dying, and Yoda's advice? Stand by and do nothing. Not only do nothing, but try not to even care that someone you love is headed for inevitable doom.
No wonder Anakin turned. Yeah, he fell because of his attachments, but also because the Jedi had nothing to offer in the way of compassion and their teachings to 'let go' were fit for sociopaths.
Think about it: Without love for his father, would Luke have a) resisted the Dark Side or b) redeemed Anakin Skywalker?
I hope the new Jedi are compassionate, like Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker before his fall, and his son Luke.
People give Yoda a lot of flack for his advice to Anakin, but I have to say that when my dad died I found the message of accepting death that's in those movies extremely helpful and even comforting. It isn't about not caring. It's about being able to let go when the time comes and accept the inevitability of death.
Basically, Yoda told Anakin "don't worry be happy".
So how about that hero?
I'm not very hungry at the moment, but thanks anyway.
Good luck finding one.
I feel the jedi were wrong about many things and in their eternal wisdom they became arrogant and left out crucial human affection and emotion elements (or maybe Lucas did this with everything in the PT). But Yoda's advice was, for me, one of the few "good moments" Yoda had in the PT. It wasn't at all about "not doing anything", Yoda didn't let him down, he made it clear that it is not natural to alter the progression of events, even when privileged information comes to us through the force. In order to be one with the force and lead the galaxy towards peace and justice, the jedi must be wise enough to know when to act and react. Anakin never understood this, he was terribly arrogant and self driven. He was extremely powerful and he misused his powers more than once.
He was a rogue jedi with poor judgement, even before the visions of Padme dying. I give kudos to Yoda for talking some sense into him. Still, this is just one more thing about these movies that is just confusing and generates debates that question not only the plot of the movie, but its quality.
If only Yoda had given Anakin a hug.
He should've told him not to declare someone dead before anything happened. That's a worthy lesson.
I haven't had a chance to read through this thread, but I read on another website that the Protagonist will be Luke's daughter? I actually don't have a problem with that, (I am not an EU guy so I dont' know if this jives with the books), as I think it would put a different perspective when looking at the 9 movies, of a male protagonist (Anakin) in the PT, another male protagonist in the OT (Luke), and a female protagonist in the ST (Luke's daughter.)
Nobody knows, who the hero is, they haven't leaked out any character names, or plot details, or even plot outlines.
I'm sincerely glad to hear that the movies helped you in that way... and I agree that that was what Yoda was trying to convey.
However, I think the distinction here is that the person Anakin was worried about had not died yet; Anakin had only had premonitions about them dying. Anakin was obviously worried and wanted to know what he could do to prevent it from happening, but instead of reassuring him and pointing out that the visions may not even have been accurate (something like "always in motion is the future"), Yoda told Anakin to accept their death. It would have been great advice if she had already actually died. But he sent someone who was obviously very worried off with advice that didn't really even fit the situation. It unfortunately became part of what made Anakin turn his visions into a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I guess to someone like Yoda, it was all the same. I'm sure he had seen so many people die throughout his long life that he had learned that if it was going to happen it was going to happen and there's nothing you can do about it. This is in contrast to Plagueis who actively sought ways to prevent it, which according to the Jedi viewpoint was unnatural.
This is very true, but the distinction with Padme is the "if it was going to happen it was going to happen" part... she wasn't terminally ill or anything. Anakin just had visions, which he unfortunately helped bring to fruition by the very actions his worry and panic made him take.
Yeah but perhaps Yoda had experienced visions in the past or known people who had and realized that it was futile to try to stop them from coming true for that very reason. Either they would or they wouldn't, but if you let them guide your actions, it doesn't tend to turn out well.
Correct, which was what I was kind of getting at with "reassuring him and pointing out that the visions may not even have been accurate". But then again, he'd be kind of putting himself in an uncomfortable position if the visions did turn out to be true. So I guess he was being more noncommittal than that.
Edit: He did, however, feel comfortable enough to say "always in motion is the future" later on, and to try to tell Luke not to go attempt to save his friends.
i think what yoda was trying to say, in his ass upwards way, is that women weaken legs. rocky's trainer mickey should have mentored anakin
Exactly, which was basically the same advice he gave Anakin. "Don't do anything. They may die and they may not, but you need to accept it if they do and if you go after them bad things will happen." Pretty consistent really, and Anakin's fate only seems to have cemented his feelings on the matter.
And he was pretty much right for Luke too, for that matter. Han and Leia didn't die, but it wasn't because Luke saved them. He just succeeded in getting himself in over his head.