Discussion in 'Literature' started by chissdude10, Oct 8, 2001.
Becca, you didn't remember Jerec in GoF?!
Galaxy of Fear: Spore, to be exact.
According to the Dark Side Sourcebook, Jerec was a Dark Jedi Master. I don't believe we quite know what rank Tremayne was before he turned, but it's likely only a Knight. He managed to turn Jerec to the Dark Side, and gave the blind Jedi a run for his money, but Tremayne also had the combined resources of an Imperial Star Destroyer at his disposal. That's enough to scare anybody.
So, obviously Vader was the most powerful, but Jerec after that.
Give me a break. I read the series over two years ago. And do you know how many hundreds of books I've read since then.
I'm only human, I can't remember everything.
I think your assessment of my reasoning is based on a faulty interpretation. When it comes to Dark Lords of the Sith, power is everything. Between Lumiya and Vader, only Lumiya was able to accomplish the death of Palpatine - unquestionably the "best" Dark Lord ever. Vader was only able to destroy his shell. Lumiya's plans allowed him to be utterly destroyed forever.
In terms of sheer power, the Sith Lord is without equal (higher is better):
Palpatine: 19, 10 Sith Lord
Vader: 18, 6 Sith Lord
Lumiya: 18, 5 Sith Lord
The rest of the also-rans:
Jeng Droga: 16
Arden Lyn: 15
Maarek Stele: 14
Sarcev Quest: 14
Mara Jade: 11
Roganda Ismaren: 10
Irek Ismaren: 4
So, it is entirely sound logic to state Lumiya is the most-powerful. In terms of "sheer power," she is right at Vader's level. However, the fact that she is much more devious than he definitely puts her over the top. When it comes to evil power, she was much stronger than he was - she never broke, like he did, becoming Anakin again.
Rationally, it's Lumiya. Officially, it most likely is Lumiya.
Lumiya it is.
You neglect, dear Sir, that HIM The Emperor was not killed by Lady Lumiya and Protector Jax's scheme. Indeed, the scheme was a profound failure.
The scheme was unsuccessful. HIM The Emperor did not die, and was able to perpetuate his life---he was able to simply re-incarnate in the body of young Anakin Solo.
In fact, HIM The Emperor was cast into Chaos by the collective power of all the Jedi who had died---Lady Lumiya had absolutely failed in her scheme. Perhaps, if you were to actually conduct any level of analysis, you might realise that Major Brie has consistently failed.
It's important to have a working definition of what "powerful" means to this discussion. For example, while Jerec was powerful in the force, he had very little political clout. Also, we should remember this thread is "Whos the most powerful dark-sider under Palpitines rule ?"
Who is Palpitine?
Um...just wondering who these dark Jedi are...
I've never heard of them.
Darth Vader, the blackest brother in the galaxy, Nubian god!
Whats a nubian???
People of Naboo.
People from part of africa.
or planet nubia.
People from naboo are different.
That is, the country of Nubia in Africa. And yes, the word is also used in SW for people from Naboo. I wonder what they call people from the planet Nubia? And my vote goes for Vader.
Nubia doesn't exist anymore, but it used to, where sudan is now, I think.
I'd have to go with Darth Vader as the most powerful dark-sider under the control of Palpatine, mostly because the other dark-siders and Dark Jedi which were represented in the books or other literary sources never had been under his "complete" control.
Jerec is without a doubt one of the strongest Force users in the entire grand theme of the Expanded Universe, but he was never under the control of Palpatine and existed as his own operative on his own terms.
Of course, we have other dark-side users and beings with strong potential in the Force under Palpatine's command, one of which being Mara Jade and so on. But these individuals worked in secrecy; they couldn't openly kill rebel leaders and threaten Imperial politics as openly as Darth Vader could. In the time between The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi Vader even had control over a major portion of the Imperial fleet, and one of two commanding ships which were almost up to par with being a super weapon in their own rights, the SSD.
He was also skilled in the dark arts and was knowledgeable in the ways of the Jedi Order of the Old Republic, which other apprentices and followers under Palpy lacked in many ways.
My vote goes to Vader.
Considering that jerec has a SSD as well, what they own doesn't really matter much.
And thus I point to the original question, it was a question asking who was the most powerful under Palpatine. Jerec also having a SDD would then be a moot point.
Personally, difficult to say based on what you mean by under Palpatine's rule. If you mean henchmen, I'd go with Vader. However, if you mean under his rule in terms of his ruling the galaxy, most likely it would have to be Palpatine himself.
Well, he also had at least 8 star destroyers under his command, and we don't know what else. He also commanded Thrawn, as well as who knows what else.
But yes, I agree vader is more powerful in combination of political, and force powers. So he is second hand man.
Vader. How anyone can refute this i will never know.
Vader didn't have just an SSD. He had the FLAGSHIP of the Imperial fleet.
As for Jerec, wasn't his bio written b4 episode 1? Wouldn't that mean that the Dark Forces guys did'nt know Vader was the Chosen One (tm)
On Lumiya I am reminded a little of the Sourcerer Coin from Pratchetts Discworld novels:
"For a thousand years it was thought that only a Sourcerer (a magician of tremendous power) could defeat another Sourcerer. However as the novel Sourcery points out, this is only the case when magic is involved and that a half-brick in a sock works just as well".
The point is that while flipping a switch or activating a posion may make you cunning it doesn't nescessarily make you powerful.
No, Jerec is as powerful as vader is since jerec is fully trained jedi master with knowledge of sith ways and teaching(from the fact that he is an archeoligist, and many masters have access to that knowledge).
Vader if he was fully trained in sith ways, would be quite formidable(The most powerful darksider ever), but palpy purposely limits vader, so as to keep him from being a threat, since palpy had all intentions of living forever.
The Mighty Dark Lord of Sith Darth Vader is the best Dark Side user of the Emperor.