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ST Who's the real co-lead Finn or Kylo? Who SHOULD it be?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Gyasi Mandara, Jan 4, 2016.

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  1. JabbatheHumanBeing

    JabbatheHumanBeing Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jul 14, 2015
    Which one? Kylo or Finn.
     
  2. zero_point_zero

    zero_point_zero Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 5, 2016
    Well to be fair they're both coleads, just different sides of the coin. The Disney promotional poster depicted Finn on the side of light, Kylo dark, and Rey right between. I think that dynamic is going to be a constant throughout the trilogy, with Reys struggle with the darker aspects of her nature being the focal point.
     
  3. The Summer Lady

    The Summer Lady Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Good question! Depends what you mean by the word 'lead' (and I suspect everyone has their own idea of this). A quick look at the Oxford English Dictionary could give a new take on this discussion, with various suggestions including "Be a route or means of access to a particular place or in a particular direction" as well as "Be a reason or motive for". So regardless of who's done what to whom so far, the question really seem to me to be this: who is the key person driving the plot in the direction it needs to go?

    Another way of looking at it is to ask what would be happening if any of those characters weren't there. If Rey had not come accross BB8 would things still be proceeding? If Finn had not had an attack of humanity what would be happening? If Kylo Ren was not a feature what would we be left with? Personally I think Kylo Ren is the key component in the script, he would be a greater loss to the story arc than anyone else.
     
  4. Gorelab

    Gorelab Jedi Knight star 1

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    Jan 4, 2016
    It seems pretty certain that Finn is going to be a lead going forth. You don't give equal time with your main lead if you plan to bench a character, plus in general I feel like massively decreasing his importance would be pretty tonedeaf, especially with how he was advertsed going in, and I kinda doubt that Disney is that silly.
     
  5. Mishraille

    Mishraille Jedi Knight star 1

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    Dec 27, 2015
    Rey and Finn are the two main protagonists. Kylo Ren is the antagonist. You cannot erase Finn from the story. Yes, this story is about the Skywalker legacy. There is a possibility that Finn may become a Skywalker. Bear in mind, he has no name, and the Skywalker legacy will probably continue. He already used Anakin's sword. Whatever happens, Finn is too wrapped up with Rey's character and even Kylo's to be eliminated. I imagine things will continue much as they already are.
     
  6. rhymecheat

    rhymecheat Jedi Master star 2

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    Dec 22, 2015
    Agree. Only two people really have no name in this movie. They are probably very, very, VERY important going forward.
     
  7. Gorelab

    Gorelab Jedi Knight star 1

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    Jan 4, 2016
    Really, Kylo going good doesn't make sense to me as a plot either. Dude's literally a war criminal complicit in the murder of billions. Are they just going to let him walk about rather than sending him to a tribunal for trying him for crimes against sentient beings?
     
  8. Nanosoft

    Nanosoft Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 15, 2015
    Sure.

    Similar to how Frodo, Sam, and Aragon were the leads in LOTR....although Sauron was *clearly* more consequential to the overall storyline.
     
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  9. Force22

    Force22 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 2, 2013
    I really don't like this debate. Each character pulls their own weight in the story. The OT was about Luke (or about Vader), or about the relationship between Luke and Vader, but you can't have these characters in a vacuum (unless it's in space, of course, but they'd still be in a ship).

    In TFA, Rey is the lead, Finn is the co-lead, and Kylo is the antagonist. I don't see what's to question about that. Can that change in the other movies? Sure!
    Can the trilogy be about Kylo? If he's the only Skywalker, that's likely. Still, even though the OT is about Vader, he's not a protagonist in any of the films. The twist is that the story is about the antagonist, but he's the antagonist nonetheless.

    Again, I don't really like this debate because it's about comparing apples to oranges, and plus, lots of people are upset about Finn's character arc, and a thread like this only adds fuel to the fire. I think all three are great and important in their own right.
     
  10. Obiwan10

    Obiwan10 Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 6, 2015
    Why is this even a debate? Its clear in marketing that Rey and Finn have been the face of the new star wars, they are co-leads with kylo ren being the main antagonist. Finn is and will be very important to this story.

    Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
     
  11. FN-2187

    FN-2187 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Nov 6, 2015
    Because apparently marketing means nothing when it comes to Finn.
     
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  12. Beardwalker

    Beardwalker Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 5, 2016
    red herring Jedi as well as a red herring co lead
     
  13. Rei of Sunshine

    Rei of Sunshine Jedi Knight star 2

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    Dec 29, 2015
    Finn's story starts literally in the start of the film and the audience follows thru the film. Ren's story is our OT trio's conflict and what sets the story into motion before the film starts. Thats why by description, our protagonist lead is Finn, whereas Ren is what leads the storyline.

    Edit:

    But of ccourse, by now. Both character's actions are important to the story, and can very wrll impact the direction it takes...
    My descriptions are just from a technical story telling view.
     
  14. Blastaar

    Blastaar Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 25, 2015
    marketing and the movie itself.
     
  15. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    Obi-Wan Solo-Skywalker

    Michael Ardnt confirms Finn is the male lead, not Kylo.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BAPwU_cBc3m/
     
  16. ksb36

    ksb36 Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jun 27, 2014
    Michael Arndt got FIRED. No one will come out and say that, but he did. He couldn't deliver a script on time, that Kathleen Kennedy would approve. His opinion is meaningless.
     
    Force22 likes this.
  17. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    Kasdan and JJ are sat RIGHT there across from him, what are you talking about?

    Arndt created the groundwork of Finn and Rey's characters. A lot of his script is still intact in the final version, which is why he is listed in the official writing credits and why he's included in a Q & A session about the movie.
     
    Jedi Grandmaster likes this.
  18. Obi-Wan Solo-Skywalker

    Obi-Wan Solo-Skywalker Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jan 3, 2016

    JediAce1 And since then the script has changed many times...Also the question of the thread as I saw it was if Finn is the lead of the trilogy (compared to Ben Solo/Kylo Ren), and the answer, I believe, no he is not...No disrespect. It's just how I see it and how I think it is.

    Among the many reasons I think proves my point is that John Williams's new score has two main music themes - one for Rey and one for Kylo Ren. There is no Finn theme and I highly doubt there will be one.

    I don't wish to go into an argument. I'm not diminishing or denying that Boyega is a lead in this film, but he is not the main male lead of these films, Adam Driver is.

    If you want to read more about the new John Williams score:
    http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...music-score-john-williams-20151217-story.html
    http://www.thenational.ae/arts-life...playing-second-fiddle-to-frenetic-pacing#full
     
  19. JediAce1

    JediAce1 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 8, 2014
    Both JJ Abrams and Michael Ardnt have stated that Finn is the male lead of the film. Ardnt STILL received a writing credit for the film in case you weren't aware.



    This is Finn's theme. They played it twice in the movie.
     
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  20. Beardwalker

    Beardwalker Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 5, 2016
    http://makingstarwars.net/2015/11/j...-finn-theme-from-star-wars-the-force-awakens/

    they aren't the only ones with themes.
     
  21. rhymecheat

    rhymecheat Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    There is no song called Kylo Theme in the OST...

    There is a song called "Kylo Ren Arrives at the Battle"
    There is a song called "Finn's Confession"

    Don't really see your point. Unless you are talking about the song that plays when Ren is on screen... That is no theme song... And Finn also has a lot of those... those are not theme songs either...

    In my opinion you are trying to hard to find evidence to your suspicion (or desires). Call it confirmation bias if you will.

    I'm stating this even trying to forget the fact that you are relying on the soundtrack to determine the main lead in this movie.

    Did you just invent a new male lead category?! There is now a main male lead and a secondary male lead?
     
  22. Obi-Wan Solo-Skywalker

    Obi-Wan Solo-Skywalker Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jan 3, 2016

    I do not wish to argue anymore.

    Please read what William's says when he talks about his music.
    http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...music-score-john-williams-20151217-story.html
    There is a Kylo's theme.

    I see your point of view and I respect it, but I simply disagree when the two characters are compared which the question posed by the thread seemed to make it - is it "X" or "Y". ( i.e. Who's the real co-lead Finn or Kylo?) So having put the question as it is, I have to say "Y" (i.e. Kylo Ren) . Also there is that contentious additional question that asks "Who SHOULD it be?" and then I presented my opinion. In my view it should be Kylo Ren.

    Let's agree to disagree and leave it at that.
     
  23. rhymecheat

    rhymecheat Jedi Master star 2

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    Dec 22, 2015
    To argue becomes an exercise in futility when one of the sides decides no amount of evidence or persuasion could ever change its view.
    I came into this willing to change if presented with the right reasons. I found none.
     
  24. Obi-Wan Solo-Skywalker

    Obi-Wan Solo-Skywalker Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jan 3, 2016
    I am not running away from the argument. I just realised too late that the two questions of the thread posed the way they are truly very contentious. This brings to a clash of polarized opinions.

    No, I did not invent a new category. "Sometimes there is more than one significant leading role in a dramatic piece, and the actors are said to play co-leads; a large supporting role may be considered a secondary lead."

    The way I see it is that both Finn and Kylo Ren are leads in this movie. But also that Kylo Ren is the main lead together that the other main lead of Rey. That's all I'm saying.
    This is similar to how both Luke and Han are leads in the OT, but it is Luke who is the main lead if the two must be compared.

    I simply answered the questions of the prompt as they are stated - Do you think Kylo Ren or Finn is the lead. And who do you think should be. Especially the second question simply "begs" for a subjective answer as it is...
     
  25. zero_point_zero

    zero_point_zero Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 5, 2016
    I'm puzzled as to why this is such a heated topic. As long as both Finn and Kylo are afforded the screen time needed to make them compelling characters, does it REALLY matter which is the "co-lead? I'm not really sure what that even means at this point. .
     
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