Why A New Hope is different from the rest

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by Carnotaur3, Aug 13, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Moderators: Darth_Nub
  1. Carnotaur3 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2004
    star 3
    It's the lack of music. I've tried to put my finger on it for a while and I figured it out. No music during the lightsaber battle, the Rebel Base before the Battle of Yavin, the beginning of Obi-Wan and Luke talking in his hut (always felt like this needed the music the most because you hear these sounds in the background and it's very distracting), and I think there was another scene but I can't remember. You had a whole slew of music in the rest of the OT and PT. There was barely a moment when there wasn't. So I think that's the reason why A New Hope feels a little disconnected in a way.
  2. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    That's right, I'd say about 50% of ANH is unscored. most notably between the escape from the deathstar and the battle of Yavin there is about 8 minutes without music.

    I actually like this style. I feel that other SW movies sometimes suffer from a music overdose, which somehow affects the realism.
  3. ANAKINSKYWEEZER Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2003
    star 3
    Yes, ANH is lacking in music. The scenes that most come to mind for me are:

    Ben and Luke's discussion about Anakin in Obi-Wan's hut
    * Here'd I'd use a nice version of "Anakin's Theme" from TPM and it slowly morphs into the "Imperial March" as Obi-Wan begins to talk about Vader.

    Luke's lightsaber training scene
    * Something very moving because this would be Luke's first experience of tapping into the Force. Perhaps that children's choir style section from "Yoda & The Younglings" from AOTC that begins at about 2:30 and ends at about 3:05.

    The trash compactor scene
    * This music was scored for the film and on the music anthology there is actually a track entitled, "Trash Compactor."

    The duel
    * The music when Obi-Wan and Vader first meet would be taken from the unused portion of "Vader's Trap," (from about 6:54-7:32) off the ESB soundtrack. From there, I would actually like to see JW mix the "DOTF" and "Battle of The Heroes" themes together. Say start off with the underlying theme from DOTF playing and the main theme being BOTH, then it would change into DOTF being the main theme and the BOTH background stuff. Then, have it fade to the Force Theme when Obi-Wan talks about how he'll become more powerful than ever. Finally, when Obi-Wan is killed, I'd use the music from Order 66 ("Anakin's Betrayal" off the ROTS soundtrack).

    The Battle of Yavin
    * The anthology track from ANH comtains many portions of unused music. Merely re-incorporate those into the film and it would be fine.

    That's my take. Anyone else have any other ideas?
  4. Carnotaur3 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2004
    star 3
    I agree Skyweezer, though I think it would be tight if some of the Battle of the Heroes theme leaked onto the Obi-Wan and Vader fight.
  5. ANAKINSKYWEEZER Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2003
    star 3
    I mentioned that in my post.
  6. SithHappensIII Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2005
    star 3
    I dont think Battle of the Heroes or DOTF would match the Vader/Kenobi scene...... it wouldnt work

    But yes i agree, not only there is the lack of quantity of music, but also quality. The ANH score seems a bit out-dated when you watch it today. That's not really the case with the rest of the saga.
  7. ANAKINSKYWEEZER Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2003
    star 3
    I especially hate that lame music when R2 & 3PO are wandering around Tatooine.
  8. Genrader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 3
    I think ANH is scored perfectly.
  9. Atticus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    I agree, its fine the way it is. If its not broken dont fix it. Also, I'm glad that the lightsaber battles dont have music, because if they did, it would be a mightmare taking the sound effects for me to use when I make a fanfilm.
  10. Carnotaur3 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2004
    star 3
    Just so everyone knows. I'm mixing music for two scenes right now: Obi-Wan's hut scene and the Duel.
  11. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    If its not broken dont fix it.

    Well; If it's broken, fix it.



    ANH is not finished
    /LM
  12. Genrader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 3
    I personally don't think the hut scene needs any music, I think it would really ruin the feel of it.

    The Vader/Kenobi fight scene would also be pretty bad, I think. Why does music need to be here? It isn't an epic battle of the century. Whether or not Kenobi survives is not the most important thing here...plus it is sort of implied that Kenobi came there to lose. It isn't supposed to be an emotional climax like you are supposed to feel with Anakin and Obi-Wan 20 years earlier.
  13. Carnotaur3 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2004
    star 3
    It is an emotional duel. It's supposed to bring back feelings of the time they first fought. You're gonna love this scene now, I'm getting ready to do a yousendit file.
  14. green-boy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2004
    star 4
    I also think it needs for music.
  15. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    It'd be interested to hear the duel with music. I agree that it's fine as it is in ANH on itself, but directly after ROTS it feels a bit lackluster.
  16. Carnotaur3 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2004
    star 3
    http://s23.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2D9VV1QYB8LCV36SRGVFLWOG79

    Link to the duel.
  17. TALL_CANS_IN_THE_AIR Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2005
    star 1
    not as much story thats what makes it different.
  18. Carnotaur3 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2004
    star 3
    http://s61.yousendit.com/d.php?id=36QM00SOXVI843HHGA5956DICO

    Ben's Hut scene.
  19. Tyranus_the_Hutt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2004
    star 4
    You make some astute observations, Carnotaur3.

    You had a whole slew of music in the rest of the OT and PT. There was barely a moment when there wasn't. So I think that's the reason why A New Hope feels a little disconnected in a way.

    The original film's budget was also significantly more contained than that of the following pictures - there was less "room" in which to maneuver creatively. Also, since ANH was designed as a stand-alone picture, certain themes, both in a visual, narrative, and musical sense, were not developed, but merely introduced. Consequently, there is sparseness to aspects of the film, which paradoxically communicate more generously than any portion of overbearing musical accompaniment could ever do. That isn't to suggest that "Star Wars" is subtle - it isn't; rather, the broad visual flourishes with which Lucas tells his story, are actually enriched by the fusion, whether it be deliberate or otherwise, of science-fiction/fantasy with bits of quasi-"documentary" technique. Yes, this is a fantastical, mythic creation that we are regarding on-screen, but the use of hand-held cameras, and the absence of a bombastic musical score in some instances, helps to bring a sense of conviction to all of the myriad wonderment; the more obvious, classical motifs are still in place, such as the structured, rousing musical score, and the classically-formed compositions, but the disparate techniques enable this GFFA to affect a "reality" of sorts, thus further immersing us into the picture's narrative.

    I actually like this style. I feel that other SW movies sometimes suffer from a music overdose, which somehow affects the realism.

    "We wanted a very sort of Max Steiner-type, old-fashioned, romantic movie score...I wanted to use some of Liszt, Dvorak, some of the 'Flash Gordon' stuff, and Johnny [Williams] said no. He wanted to make some strong theme, fairly reminiscent in a few places but at the same time very original." - George Lucas, Interview with Paul Scanlon, Rolling Stone magazine, August 25, 1977

    ANH is the one "Star Wars" picture which seems to be stripped of all extraneous details; the result is an economical feat of storytelling whose power grows through our investment in its story and characters, rather than by imparting a bombastic soundtrack in order to elicit false sympathy from its audience. That said, I think that the musical scores have been used very nicely in all of the "Star Wars" films. Lucas has often claimed that these pictures are supposed to play out in a manner that is not entirely different from that of a silent film - a longtime fan of silent movies, Lucas no doubt sought to link image and music with the intent of cultivating an emotional response in the audience. In other words, the director prefers to tell these stories using the succession of images which, along with the application of recurring melodies, suggest both cascading lyricism and a lost sense of romantic whimsy.

    I agree Skyweezer, though I think it would be tight if some of the Battle of the Heroes theme leaked onto the Obi-Wan and Vader fight.

    I enjoy the amount of tension that the clashing of lightsabers indicates during this sequence; the duel is allowed to build until Vader slashes through Obi-Wan's Bedouin robes, and Luke screams in horror upon witnessing the "demise" of his good friend and mentor. The music here seems more purposeful, like a staccato beat which punctuates the immediacy of these proceedings - the emotional urgency is heightened due to the filmmakers? restraint in this fashion.

    I especially hate that lame music when R2 & 3PO are wandering around Tatooine.

    "The whole [score] was really designed like 'Peter and the Wolf.' We did it so that each character has their own theme and whenever that character is on the screen that theme is played.

    One interesting thing about the music - which is sort of like the movie itself - is that I really expected to get devastated in terms of people saying, 'Oh, my God, what a stupid, old-fashioned thing
  20. DARTHFINGERZ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2004
    star 4
    The main thing AnH needs is the IM when Vader enters. Even if it is no place else, I'd atleast like to hear it there. Sepharih has a great edit of this...there is a link to it in the changes thread for everyone to check out. (if you cannot find it PM me & I'll help you out)

    Other then that -- I like whatever music is already there.




    Maybe in some of the more quiet spots it might be nice to have JW score it with unused OT music, PT music, or even new music. The suggestions made here already covered that fine I think.
  21. LeiaShmiPadme Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2005
    star 1
    Hello! [face_peace]

    I must agree that there could and should have more music in ANH. I think it would add to the emotion of the movie. I have watched both of the pieces with the added music. I felt that they were quicker and had more emotion. I think that new music or unused music would be nice to add.

    In short I think that it would make ANH more like the rest to have a bit more music added. However I think in the places that have music it just perfect.
  22. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
    Ah, so this thread inspired the thread in the Music forum

    well, this thread also belong in there, so I'm moving it
  23. Genrader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 3
    I like the new music additions, but I still don't think that the music fits completely. I wouldn't HATE it being in there, but the lack of music in these scenes really is different and nice imho.
  24. Draxtralia Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2004
    star 1
    Adding more music to Star Wars wouldn't work.

    As a film by itself, the score within the film is perfect. If you're watching it as the fourth part of a saga, it's also perfect because after the highly emotional and musical overload of Revenge of the Sith, A New Hope calms down a lot and gives the film time to rest and to breathe.

    Adding music for the sake of it doesn't make it better, it only creates false emotions that the filmmakers or the composer never originally intended.
  25. Carnotaur3 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2004
    star 3
    "Adding music for the sake of it doesn't make it better, it only creates false emotions that the filmmakers or the composer never originally intended."


    Yes, I agree, but there are a few scenes in which music can enhance. I'm not saying score the whole thing, because there's alot of scenes I feel should be kept without the music: compactor scene, control room scene, yadda yadda.
Moderators: Darth_Nub
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.