Why A New Hope is different from the rest

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by Carnotaur3, Aug 13, 2005.

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  1. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    So, I guess the answer to the thread title is that Star Wars is different from the rest because only this score inspires people to think they're better than John Williams, so much so that they can put together a superior score by simply editing a few clips.

    But back on-topic: I remember hearing one time the phrase "sequels aren't real movies." Now I don't totally agree with that, but I think there's a valid point there, especially as far as SW is concerned.

    As many have said, Star Wars works as a stand-alone movie. It's the only one of the series that does. ESB and ROTJ are both extensions of the original film, and the PT is an extension of the original trilogy. Each successove movie (in order of production, not episode number) builds on what has come before, and seeks to add touchstones here and there to remind you of what you felt while watching the previous movies.

    Example: TIE Fighter Attack from SW is repeated when Lando is flying through the second Death Star in ROTJ. In SW, the music is purely about conveying the tone and excitement of the scene. In ROTJ, the music is used to convey the excitement of the scene, but is also intended to force memories of the excitement from hearing this music in the original film.

    The above example is one that I believe works; it doesn't always.
  2. Indiana_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2004
    star 4
    Well that and it's being used for ACTUAL Rebels, not some guys escorting a princess.
  3. Zarm_Rkeeg Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2003
    star 3
    What, sneaking aboard a top-secret millitary instillation, freeing a prisoner from death row, killing scores of millitary personel, sabatoging equipment, and fleeing under fire doesn't constitue 'rebelling' to you? ;)
  4. Indiana_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2004
    star 4
    Well, Han and Luke weren't part of the Rebel Alliance yet.
  5. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    The "Rebel Fanfare" isn't a theme for the Rebel Alliance. Only in Return of the Jedi is it used this way. Star Wars and Empire have it as a theme for "the good guys." The cameos in The Phantom Menace (end of "He Is the Chosen One") and Revenge of the Sith (unreleased cue "Get 'Em R-2!") also herald "the good guys" in some way.
  6. Indiana_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2004
    star 4
    The end of He Is the Chosen one doesn't sound too much like the Rebel Fanfare. And in ESB, it is used for the Rebels on Hoth. ("Stand By, Ion Cannon. Fire.")
  7. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    I don't mean to stray too far off topic, but Williams themes or motifs are not always exclusive to the
    character/etc that they are normally associated with.

    Examples:
    Leia's theme when Ben is cut down (ANH)
    Yoda's theme when Leia, Chewie, Lando and droids are escaping Bespin (ESB)
    Vader's theme when Lord Sidious and Yoda duel (ROTS)

    ***this one in particular seems to really rub people's carrots the wrong way, but it is
    The Imperial March first, then (Darth Vader's Theme) second. No one seemed to mind when it
    was played at the end of AOTC with the seeds of The Empire taking place!***
  8. Indiana_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2004
    star 4
    The first two are thought to just be used for the 'coolness' factoer, despite how much Leia's theme blows in that scene.
  9. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    For the coolness factor?
    I'm sure that's what Williams was thinking![face_whistling]

    But actually, the emotional value of Leia's theme in that scene is why JW
    used it. I know I've read that somewhere (maybe Soundtrack box set?),
    along with his comments that he feels that the themes he writes should'nt
    be exclusive to only one thing, if it works on a different level for
    something else.
    [face_peace]
  10. Indiana_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2004
    star 4
    Well, think as to why Yoda's theme plays when Anikan and Padme are on the Conveyor Belt. This was sometihng that just sounded interesting, and someone said this a while ago.
  11. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    Yeah, that's kind of a head scratcher to me, but so was all the music in
    the final 1/4 of that film. I've never had a steak butchered so well!
    Is that portion of Yoda's Theme original music scored for that scene,
    or like so much else, just tracked in?
  12. The-Tennis-Ball-Kid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2004
    star 3
    "Leia's theme when Ben is cut down (ANH) "

    " Yoda's theme when Leia, Chewie, Lando and droids are escaping Bespin (ESB) "

    " Vader's theme when Lord Sidious and Yoda duel (ROTS) "
    It's a note-for-note reprise of The Clash Of Lightsabers; there's no way it was intended for that scene...

    " No one seemed to mind when it
    was played at the end of AOTC with the seeds of The Empire taking place!"
    Foreshadowing with a sledgehammer, heh![face_peace]

    Yoda's theme on the conveyor belt is tracked in from Yoda Strikes Back.


    ttbk, Amon Hen
  13. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    Thanks ttbk, but I respectfully disagree about that section of Anakin vs. Obi-Wan
    being a note for note reprise of Clash of The Lightsabers.
    Anywho, thanks for the quotes and all.
  14. Zarm_Rkeeg Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2003
    star 3
    Yeah, Clash of Lightsabers didn't do that 'going strong, then suddenly go into wheezing, dying echoes' thing at the end originally... obviously a forshadowing of Vader's guresome fate, his mechanized breathing, and the way it would be reduced to a wheezing rasp when he finally fulfilled the destiny that he was currently in the middle of turning his back on and destroyed the Sith once and for all. ;)

    And the fact that it was played during Palpatine's scene was a foreshadowing of the fact that htis sacrifice would be ultimately only half-usefull, because the Emperor would return as a clone, years, later, thus un-completing the circle again.
    Or, maybe some music, like the above examples, is just proof that Williams isn't like Lucas- the form, the emotion, and the style still take precedence over technically flawless work or accuracy at the expense of story.

    In other words, maybe he really did score some of that just because 'it sounded cool.' ;)
  15. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    I think it's natural to use the IM in The Emperor's duel simply because He is leading The Empire. It's not just Vader's theme.
  16. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    That's true, but in the same film it accompanies Han, Luke, and the Bespin gang on several occasions. "He Is the Chosen One" doesn't have the full Rebel fanfare, but it definitely features the first phrase of it. My point is that the Rebel Fanfare is basically "the good guys'" theme; it doesn't mean much in particular.
  17. Indiana_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2004
    star 4
    Alright, fair enough. The only one that actually made sense to me was in ROTS with R2, because of how he helps the Rebellion in some way.
  18. JediMasterKenobi07 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2005
    star 1
    I agree , it's the only one of the OT Soundtracks I own.
  19. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    Christmas list from JediMasterKenobi07 to Santa:

    1. The Empire Strikes Back (SE)
    2. Return of The Jedi (SE)
    3. The Phantom Menace (OST or UE)
    4. Attack of The Clones
    5. Revenge of The Sith

    Ask Santa!


    (Sidious voice)
    "DEW IT!"[face_peace]
  20. JediMasterKenobi07 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2005
    star 1
    I own TPM , AOTC , ROTS & ANH Soundtracks , but have failed to get TESB or ROTJ yet!
  21. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    Yeah, I guess you did specify OT, did'nt you.
    D'oh. I can't read.
    [face_peace]
  22. JediMasterKenobi07 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2005
    star 1
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