Why all the Clone Wars Cartoon Backlash?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by R2-MeToo, Feb 28, 2003.

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  1. R2-MeToo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2000
    Note: I originally posted this in the Ep. III Spoilers forum and was directed here (didn't even know the Small Screen Forum existed! Hello all!)

    Why exactly is it that so many people are reacting negatively to the announced Clone Wars cartoon? I am 30 years old, and have been a Star Wars fan since the very beginning. Back then--excuse me while I put on my Long White Beard(tm)--we (that is, my Star Wars-loving friends and I) were excited to the point of ridiculousness by the prospect of anything new in the Star Wars realm. Yes, even the Holiday Special was, at the time, seen as an occasion that ranked right next the Christmas. We loved ANYTHING Star Wars! We played on the swings and pretended we were flying X-wings through the Death Star trench. We read the old comic books (anyone remember the "Crimson Forever" storyline?). We didn't have "canon" debates. We eagerly looked forward to each new movie with the anticipation of a starving man in a restaurant.

    We watched the Droids and Ewoks cartoons. We watched the Ewok TV movies. We ate up everything we were served, because it was Star Wars. We didn't have the Internet to tell us how much it all sucked. We enjoyed it because it was part of what we loved. It satisfied an appetite. Sure, it wasn't Chateau Briand, but when you're hungry, even a McDonalds cheeseburger tastes good (lots of food references here... can you tell I haven't had breakfast?).

    When the Special Editions came out, we (that is, those of us that hadn't grown out of Star Wars...poor saps...) were so excited to see our favorite movies on the big screen again. "Hey, look! There's Jabba! And Boba Fett!" we'd say. And it was cool to feel like a kid again.

    The feeling was the same when Episode I arrived. Just the excitement of a NEW Star Wars movie. Sure, it turned out it wasn't quite the movie we'd all hoped for since 1983, but it was new Star Wars, which, in my opinion, is better than no Star Wars.

    So now, we've had Episode II. We liked it better than Episode I, but probably still not as much as the OT. But it was still new Star Wars. And we felt like kids again. Yoda kicks buttock! Oh my God, the Clone Wars!

    Now, we get the announcement that we're getting a series of Star Wars shorts on Cartoon Network. And suddenly, a lot of fans are looking at it negatively. Negatively! How can this be a bad thing? Are "fans" so jaded now that they can't just be excited by something that, when I was 10, would have been the coolest thing ever? Is quality the problem? Are you worried that their going to suck? Look, I watch Samurai Jack, and I can tell you that Genndy Tartakovsky (the guy who is bringing the Clone Wars to TV--how cool does THAT sound?)will provide us not only with a stunning visual experience, but can pack more real emotion and intelligence into 3 minutes than Hayden Christensen did in a whole movie.

    Is the problem that they're going to be too short? I have the feeling that we could get 30 1-hour films, and people wouldn't be happy. That's because we all want more Star Wars. And we're getting it. It's better than we had for 15 years. It's even better than we had between 1999 and 2002. All I'm saying is, give it a chance. Just remember what it's like to be a kid again (those of you who actually aren't). Feel giddy! We're getting more Star Wars! Eat up this little appetizer (food again) and take it for what it is. It's more Star Wars. Don't take Star Wars fandom so seriously! It'll turn you into a Trekkie!

    Soon enough, there won't be any more. Treasure what we've got. Enjoy it while you can.

    I'm done now. Sorry for the length. You may fire when ready.
  2. leif Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 1999
    star 3
    Everyone has there own opinion of what SW should and shouldnt be...down to specific movie plotlines. With a fanbase this large, it can be expected.

    but i too, could not agree with people attacking it for this or that reason, when it hasnt even came out.

    the timescale of 3 minutes doesnt bother me, sure i would rather it be 3 hours, but Quality always outrules Quanity.
  3. Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
    My only two concerns about the Cartoon series is the animation and the Dark Jedi. I read your entire post and there is no way these small episodes are going to pack more emotion and intelligence that Hayden Christensen did in Episode II. I found that comment unfair and cruel. [face_plain]
  4. StitchExperiment626 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2003
    star 3
    "...will provide us not only with a stunning visual experience, but can pack more real emotion and intelligence into 3 minutes than Hayden Christensen did in a whole movie."

    I'm a big fan of Hayden Christensen.
    He is a vrey good actor. I watched Samurai Jack too. Not my favorite type of show, but I'll give Clone Wars a chance. So why don't you give Hayden Christensen one. [face_plain]

  5. R2-MeToo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2000
    Apparently, I have given the impression that I hate Hayden. That was not my intent, becuase I don't. I just used him as an example in a much larger argument. Sorry if I offended anyone, least of all our boy Anakin. For the record, I'm looking forward to seeing him wow us as Lord Vader.

    Now, back to the subject at hand.
  6. SarumanTheChef2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2001
    star 3
    What I have found in years of traversing forums across the internet, is that what may look like a lot of anti- sentiment towards soemthing, is actually just the negative people complaining louder. When someone is content with soemthing, they're not as motivated to go posting about it, but when someone wants to whine and complain, they do it with vigor :).

    Just look at the poll in this forum about what you think of the cartoon. 68% say its a "great idea". 68%! 42 votes, at this time. Thats pretty overwhelming support for it :). Again, the people who complain just happen to be louder than the majority that are satisfied, is all. (I've seen this in Blizzard game forums for each new game they have, I've seen it in Magic:The Gathering forums, I've seen it everywhere.)

    On a tangent, the reason they decided to make these so short must be to test the waters. 60 minutes of animation is a smaller project than a full season of animated 30-minute programs, but the 2-3 minute shorts assure some variety and widespread showings that aren't all reruns of the same exact one-hour show, which would get old fast. What my point is, it that they are testing the waters; if this is a huge sucess, then it isn't a risk for them anymore to produce a much more sizable project, e.g. The Thrawn Trilogy or a regular show or something like that, for the animation will have a proven solid audience.
  7. Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    I don't consider it a backlash, I think some of us are apprehensive and have very low expectations. That's all. My problem with this project is the animation style. I have doubts that it can have a SW feel.

    But, I'm gonna watch it like a three-year-old nevertheless!

    :D
  8. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    Most of the backlash stems from two main reasons:

    1) Not liking the animation style
    2) Not liking that they are 2-3 minutes versus a traditional half hour.
  9. TigerCraneFist Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 4
    I was very dissapointed when I saw the animation-style (I don't like Samurai Jack) but I'm still very excited about this! Even if it's going to suck (I'm not saying that I think it will) I'm still gonna watch it! Just because I don't like Samurai Jack doesn't mean I'm not gonna like Clone Wars!

    So let's be optimistic people!

  10. Darth_Malt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2003
    star 4
    I like the animation style. It makes the show "feel" different from other "traditional" cartoons. I hope they even bring this out on DVD.

    I am looking forward to the Star Wars cartoon.
  11. DarthPhelps Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2002
    star 5
    Personally, I expressed some concern rather than complaints, and it's primarily based on the two things Sapient mentioned.

    I'm *cough* slightly older than you, and frankly feel the same way about Star Wars, my friend. I'm a nut, as I'm sure most of us here are.

    I have held a position of dislike for the overall style of animation that's being pumped out of Cartoon Network lately. I was disappointed to find that the upcoming series will follow a simiar artistic path, but I'm not going to make a verdict until I see the product. My love of SW may override any misgivings I have of the animatin style. Do understand that it is only a minor concern over chosen style, and in fact it is because I love SW so much that I care about the style in which the show is being presented. Still, many people like the style, and so it really comes down to the fact that you can't please everyone. No big deal, really.

    As far as the length goes, there's a part of me that would love to get as much SW as possible, but that isn't the main reason that I dislike it. The problem is that I have a 2&1/2 year old son, and we try to not let him get hooked on too much animated T.V. (not really driven by this particular parent ;) ), and having little animated shorts inserted between other regularly scheduled programs means that I have to do some hunting to find it at just the right time (rather than just letting Cartoon Network stay on the tube for 1/2 hour or more). In this case, my concern is that I will have a difficult time actually being able to SEE the cartoon because the small allotted time means that I'll probably miss it. :(
  12. R2-MeToo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2000
    I agree that the animation style is definitely a matter of taste. Might more realistic, anime style of animation work better for Star Wars? Quite possibly. I happen to like the stylized, Samurai Jack approach, but that's just me.

    As for the length, sure, we all want more. As for having a hard time finding a 3 minute short, that could be a problem. But I must assume (yeah, I know what that makes me... but I imagine some of you already think I'm an a$$) that Cartoon Network will handle this well. They WANT us to see it, so they'll put it in prime time, and keep it in the same place. Does this mean we might have to sit through the last five minutes of Ed, Edd and Eddie to see it? Maybe, but it's a small price to pay.

    And I totally agree about the vocal, naegative minority issue. I just want to see the majority who are excited about the Clone Wars speak up!
  13. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    DarthPhelps, that was extremely well-written. :)
  14. Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    I agree.

    And, come on, even though some of us have problems with the animation style, ect. we are all gonna watch it like the good SW fans we all are. I don't see why all the fuss! :D
  15. rodan70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2002
    star 4
    My only problem is that they are too damn short. After the intro and credits, you'll get about 30 seconds of action. Other than that, I don't have a problem.
  16. darth__vengeant Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    Im an old school SW fan myself, 29 this year, and im torn on this subject. When it was first anounced a few months ago about a SW Cartoon, I was excited, but then they said it wasnt happening so I just said "Ohh well" Now, they confirm that it is happening, but its only 3 LITTLE min long each week AND its done by the Samuri Jack guy, which I cant stand personaly. So, now I say "Da#$it!!!" because it could be SO much better and longer each week!! Why is it that everyone seems to half-a#$ star wars now days? The good quality SW stuff is harder to come by now than it used to be. For example: Ive hardley bought ANY new Star Wars comics in the past few years because half of them are drawn so stupidly that I cant get past it, like the Jedi VS Sith series.that looked REDICULOUS. Dark Horse needs to get with it. The new Republic/Clone Wars comic #49 was great though., thats art done correctly for SW. You cant have SW look all kidsy and happy unless its Droids or Ewoks because thats really who its aimed at.

    This new Clone Wars cartoon is going to have a sqarish, straight lined art style and I just dont think it fits. Frankly, I NEVER watch SJ becuase I hate the art style, and im an artist. Who wants to see Padme drawn with corenered edges and blocky breasts? Anakin with two straight lines for shoulders? Count Dooku with a flat, square lightsaber?

    Im sorry, this doesnt fly with me. How much better would it have been if they had the people that draw the new He-Man do it? ALOT!!!! The way they draw Evil Lynn and Skelator FITS and it looks GREAT...and the fight scenes are great. PERFECT SW meterial. Soft round edges, lifelike looking, and great style.

    Now, 3 min each week? Who thought that up? Was he high when he came up with it? Because thats the stupidist thing I have ever heard in my life!! Why dont they just show two half hour specials (20 times 3 is 60 min) and get it over with so you can ectually ENJOY it as a whole and now cut up so many times you cant get into it. Would they do that to Star Trek now and Stargate SG-1? 10 min a week? Who the keck is going to want that? I am at a standstill on this because im just going to HOPE they put this on DVD and i'll watch it uncut-up and be able to ENJOY it..even though its drawn rediculous.

    Lastly, for people to say "Ohh, its SW so we take what we can get" thats moronic people!! Thats like saying "Ohh, we'll take the CRAP just because it has SW written on it ans thats ok by us" Thats why most the Hollywood movies BLOW now days and all they do is Sequels and Prequels for everything...its just for DOLLAR signs and not good quality imagination, vision and art. What ever happened to all that anyways? It died with the 80's. Where is all the Dragonslayer's and Trons and Secret of the Nimhs and Dark Crystals now? NOTHING compairs to those things because knowone has what it takes anymore. Its all about CASH now, and the processed, essembly line crap people get when they go to the theatre and watch MTV!!

    In the end, The Clone Wars cartoon needs an overhaul, much like EP1 did and the Fireplace scene in EP2 REALLY does. I know people will disagree with me, thats a given, but people need to WAKE UP and demand Vision, Artisticness, and IMAGINATION instead of dollar signs and crap. Yes, Samuri Jack is different, and its great for what it is if you like it...but its NOT SW. Take those suit and tie morons setting up there making all the money off crap they put out and get RID of em!! Go to school, learn a trade in Art, Music, or Design and get things back on track or its ALL over!!! Im going to school for music because its been in my blood since I saw Ep 4 in 1977 at the age of 4. I dont want crappy music and MTV, I want TALENT, so im doing something with my talent to help stop the freakin madness!!!
  17. TigerCraneFist Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 4
    wow, darth__vengeant, chill man!

    We all appreciate to hear your oppinion and we totally respect it, but there's no need to go and call people "moronic"!

    Cool down a little, okay..
  18. weezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 6
    Well you know diffrent strokes for diffrent folks.

    You hated the style for Jedi v. Sith. I loved it.
    You like Dan's style in Republic. I think its nice but a touch to realistic for my taste.

    My point is that "style" should be the last reason for anyone to put down the Clone Wars cartoon, yet that seems to be the only thing that anyone has. ?[face_plain]

    As for sloppy and simple. I think you can ask any artist how dificult it is to do convincing straight line work like that.
    Heck Jim Lee has even said that he wishes he could draw more like Mike Mingola.
  19. Punisher Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 1998
    star 4
    Well, no need for me to say anything...

    Darth__Vengeant, I agree with you.

    The irony is, I don't have cable or satellite, so I won't be seeing the cartoon and really don't care to.
    The art style, the length, the subject matter, the name dropping of creator and previous work, means nothing to me. Just going by the description and picture on the Offical Site, is enough for me...

    I'm sure everyone else will watch and eat it up, but because some of us don't particularly care about this cartoon, that doesn't mean that we have abandon SW or a bunch of SW Nazi's.
    I think people that take the time to have honest, legitimate reasons like Darth__Vengeant, should speak their mind, although somepeople may be put off by his "style".
    Remember... mindless bashing and praise won't make things better, that leads to conflicts and poor behavior. [face_devil]

    If someone isn't happy, I feel they should speak up... SW fans don't fans to be CLONES, do they? ;)

    I don't think so. :)

    After what happened when TPM came out... no backlash is surprising to me.
  20. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    Exactly. It's okay to disagree or love it so long as it's done responsibly and respectfully. And folks, if someone doesn't like something, even if they strongly do not like something, that doesn't mean they don't like Star Wars or should leave the site. That's a very weak comeback and a sign of one's own inabilities to see things objectively. After all, anyone who takes the time to register here, even if all they do is post once and troll, are all Star Wars fans and they wouldn't have posted otherwise.
  21. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    I said this before but I really don't think that style of animation is appropriate for Star Wars. I htink if they're not going to use CGI then I think they should use a style of handwritten animation that lends itself to more detail. But hey, it's Star Wars. I'll get used to the style and I'm sure I'll dig it. The length of the shorts is a bigger issue for me. I honestly don't see how a coherant story can be told in 2-3 minute chunks. That's more suited to a comedy with a quick setup and a punchline. But, who knows, we'll see. I'm definitly willing to give it a chance.

    Besides, this could just be a prologue. Dexter's Laboratory started out with the same format and it moved on to become a regular series. I've never seen it myself but that's what I was told.
  22. weezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 6
    Actually lots of Cartoon Network shows start out as shorts. They have a certain show that is nothing but shorts and alot of the CN shows have come from it. Dexter was first shown there but it wasn't like they were showing a whole bunch of eposodic ones in between other shows like they are for Clone Wars.

    This is the first time that they've done anything like this.

    So who ever told you that was wrong PB

    I do think that this isn't the last that we've seen of SW animation though. I know it isn't "proof" of anything but I don't think that Hasbro would of extended their licence to 2057 if they didn't know that LFL had something up their sleeve.
  23. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    Ok, fair enough. I didn't think that they were necessarally episodic but I do believe they started out as shorts.
  24. weezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 6
    Ok, maybe "wrong" was the wrong word. They did start as shorts (as part of a college animation project IIRC) and were shown first on the Cartoon Network show "Cartoons Cartoons". Like I said almost all of CN's orginal programing are first shown on this show. More recently people have been able to vote on the next show after seeing the short.

    So my only point was that you couldn't draw parallels between the two. One is a guy that draws something people like and is lucky enough to get it picked up, the other is a very structured formulaic marketing campaing.
  25. snap-hiss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 5
    I honestly don't see how a coherant story can be told in 2-3 minute chunks.

    I really don't think that's what they're going for. I don't feel that there is going to be a whole lot of in depth story. Mostly just eye candy and cool visuals.


    !snap
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