Discussion Why all the EU Hatred?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by JediMJS, Nov 1, 2012.

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  1. Disciple-of-Tython Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2006
    star 4
    Indeed, the EU is flexable and adaptable, it can be retconned to fit the new films. No writer should be hindered on their creativity, that being said the EU should still matter due to it enriching the SW universe with this epic, collective history.
    theonesith and tsunami1138 like this.
  2. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    That said, inclusion of characters whom the EU has killed off, might cause problems.
  3. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    I don't think that even the most die-hard enthusiast for the EU would have a problem with that - the Retcon people are pretty good at fitting things back together with the least loss of content - like with TCW.

    What concerns the EU enthusiasts is that people have been pushing the idea of splitting the entire EU off into "Infinities" status, or into some sort of alternate timeline.
    tsunami1138 likes this.
  4. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    With the exception of Chewie, I can't think of any non-EU character that has been killed-off in the EU. IF LFL wants to bring him back, that's fine - some plausible explanation for his survival can be found by the Retcon people - no one saw his body, after all!

    And we did all see Darth Maul disappear down that shaft in two pieces - but he's back in TCW!
  5. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Mon Mothma. Ackbar. Crix Madine.

    There's also EU characters, killed off in the EU, whose survival (if it's set years after) might cause issues.
  6. Disciple-of-Tython Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2006
    star 4
    They'll have to retcon what they can, if not a reboot of post ROTJ EU may have to be considered.
  7. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    All fairly minor characters with hardly any screen time in the OT- they saw a lot more exposure in the EU itself!

    Who, with the possible exception of Mara, would LFL be likely to want to bring back? And there's always the cloning tank solution...
    Last edited by Tim Battershell, Nov 11, 2012
  8. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    No idea who they'd want to bring back- but given the complaints about Maul's survival, it would make sense for them not to repeat the whole thing with someone else.
  9. Jedi_Lover Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2004
    star 5
    I don't think many people would complain about Mara coming back as long as they didn't do it in a creepy way...like after she died her spirit got trapped in a holocron and then her spirit was transferred into the body of a twelve year old girl who was trying to commit suicide by bashing her head in with the device. Mara the bodysnatcher would not play well.
  10. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    Crix was hardly a big character, and Mon Mothma should conceivably have died of old age if the ST is set, as expected, in 45 ABY. She was a Senator in RotS, and older even than Padme, and then we have RotJ set over two decades later... so I doubt Mon Mothma will be a big problem.

    People have also forgot Ackbar has died in the EU, but he has featured as an adult in TCW and then more than decades later again in RotJ... I imagine he would have died of old age as well, if the ST is in 45 ABY... though Rieekan is still around in 44 ABY, which befuddles.

    Chewbacca is the biggest problem for an ST set in 45 ABY, as a very prominent film character the EU did kill off. Though Lucas personally authorised the death of Chewbacca and the novel it occurred in was well publicised in the US (for a SW novel), being as it had a TV spot.
  11. chris hayes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2012
    star 4
    I like the EU there are some very good stories & would hate any of it to rebooted......that being said why would George Lucas let it get so out of hand in a way he should have not let any material be written 25 years after Jedi & certainly not let Chewbacca be killed off .
  12. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    We only think that Chewie is dead -- no one actually saw him die, or saw his body, and Sernpidal was not smashed into fragments like Alderaan (if I remember rightly, the moon was only 20km in diameter). Millenium Falcon had a plot point of the Falcon's pilot during the Clone Wars being in a coma for several decades and suffering severe amnesia that could very well be adapted to allow Chewie to make a return via retcon.

    We also do not know exactly when Ep 7 is going to appear in the timeline - members of the Forum Staff that I queried the other day were of the opinion that it was some 45 to 50 years after Jedi, perhaps longer.

    For interest, there was an interesting little snippet of information that appeared in the Ep 7 Forum yesterday; Mara (albeit under her Jabba's-court alias) was said to have appeared in the radio play of Jedi which (it was claimed) came out after Heir to the Empire (which linked both identities) was published. According to canon-rules, that should make Mara a G-canon character (the top rank, only subordinate to the film, its script and the film novelisation).
  13. Varguitas Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 1
    The simple answer is this: The EU set after Return of the Jedi is basically blasphemous to what was established in the movies.
    You got the idea that by the end of Return of the Jedi, that without the Emperor as leader of the Empire, that it would have collapsed and that soon the New Republic would have taken over. However, that doesn't seem to even be the case in the stories. The war after ROTJ lasts for another 15 years which is honestly completely ridiculous, since The Clone Wars only lasted 3 years and The Time the Rebels took to defeat the Emperor was 4 years. It completely destroys the ending of Return of the Jedi.

    It completely destroys the Prophecy of the Chosen One and the concept of bringing balance to the Force. Why the hell did the Sith come back if Anakin destroyed them? Why the hell are there so many wars going on if there was supposed to be balance, meaning that the wars would end, not escalate?

    You see what I mean? That is why George Lucas should stick with the idea of making the movies much more ethereal.
    Moog likes this.
  14. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Why would that be so bad? The stories and characters would sitll exist.
    Jedi_Lover and KilroyMcFadden like this.
  15. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    Huge problem. Chewie is dead in the EU. I hope he's in the movies and if that conflicts and destroys the EU so be it. The EU isn't canon IMO.
    Last edited by Echo-07, Nov 22, 2012
  16. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    There would be nothing to connect them and nothing to keep them consistent with each other going forward.

    This could reach extreme absurdities like characters being killed one story, alive the next, then dead again, etc.

    There'd be nothing to keep characterization consistent.

    A huge part of the appeal of continuity is that it's all one big story that is fully connected and consistent.

    A lot of people consider Star Wars EU as part of the "one true story" of the GFFA.

    If I want crazy stories, inconsistent characterization and constant retcons and reboots I'll go pick up a comic book for the first time in about 14 years.

    If there's no continuity, I'm not really interested in Star Wars EU. Continuity is actually pretty rare in tie-in fiction and sorta made Star Wars special.

    I've been on a break from Star Wars EU for about a year now because I lost faith in the continuity of it.

    That's a full year of Star Wars not getting a dollar from me.
    tsunami1138 likes this.
  17. Jedi_Lover Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2004
    star 5
    Actually that is more realistic. Look at the USA and Afghanistan. We've been fighting a war against a terrorist group in a small country for ten years. The SW galaxy has thousands of worlds with trillions and trillions of sentient being. I would be surprised if they could pull off getting a unifying government established at all.

    It doesn't matter that the Emperor is dead. You have hundreds of Moffs vying for power. Do you think they are going to surrender their ships and power to rebels just because the Emperor died? No, it just means there is going to be more chaos in the galaxy. The Empire won't be as organized, but they will continue to fight on.
    Kir Kanos 66, tsunami1138 and Echo-07 like this.
  18. Varguitas Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 1
    Then why the heck is everybody so happy in Coruscant when they chear that the Empire is gone? Couldn't they have signed an armistice with the stormtroopers?
  19. KED12345 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2012
    star 4
    It's explained in the EU that shortly after that the stormtroopers came in and pretty much pulled a Bloody Sunday on the protesters IIRC.

    Just because the Emperor and Vader are dead doesn't mean the Empire is gone, it's simply unrealistic for the Empire to suddenly die as soon as the Emperor is gone. Granted, they'd be weaker.

    40 years after Return of the Jedi though? The Empire will be long gone IMO.
    Last edited by KED12345, Nov 22, 2012
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  20. Jedi_Lover Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2004
    star 5
    The same reason everybody was cheering in the streets in Baghdad as they tore down the statues of Saddam Hussein.

    The rebels had a major victory and they thought the Imperials were on the run. But things usually don't work out that neatly.
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  21. Varguitas Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 1
    Wouldn't it have been better, to fit in with the balance to the force and everything, that the Empire would have broken up into a series of different governments each led by a certain Moff or Admiral or something, and that each of them takes control over a few worlds? And that slowly, the Republic ends up controlling those guys.

    That's why I like to practically ignore that part of the EU and pretend as if it never happened. And now with these new movies coming out I'm not sure what to expect.
    Last edited by Varguitas, Nov 22, 2012
  22. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    I think it's implied that the Empire was destroyed (with non relevant remnants here and there), thus the celebration. Otherwise it makes the whole effort of the Rebels null.
  23. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    People hate the EU because it has no meaning. If people invest time and emotion into reading a Star Wars novel or comic, or playing a game, and then a year or two later find out that - Psych! - it turns out that George now says that that never actually happened and so everything they invested in it is meaningless, they'll start to get gunshy about investing time or money in stories that may or may not actually have any meaning.

    That's why one thing that Disney has to get on top of right away is getting the Star Wars canon under control. No more G-canon, or C-canon, or W, X, Q, or N-canon: pay someone to sit in a room somewhere and hash out a Universe Bible so that by the time they're done, there is just one Star Wars canon that everyone understands, everyone can refer to, and everyone who creates Star Wars stories can be sure that what they're creating will fit. Then hold people to it - no exceptions, ever, by anybody, except for comedic/parody pieces like Detours or things clearly labeled as "What If" stories.

    This may mean that the EU has to stick to side stories, other-era stories (like Old Republic), or other things that don't directly involve the main characters we'll be seeing in Star Wars movies and TV shows. But that'll be a better situation than we have now.
    tsunami1138 likes this.
  24. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    I can easily see the Imperial remnants putting up a fight for years afterward. Also, every single planet in the galaxy wasn't a rebel. Many were evilly inclined toward the Empire. Also, after the fall of the Empire alot of criminal orgs would fill the void in the chaos. Black Suin for instance.
    Kir Kanos 66 likes this.
  25. The Hellhammer Grand Judicator of the New Film Territories

    Moderator
    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 5
    A galaxy spanning Empire does not simply collapse overnight. Let me repost something I said in a different thread on that topic, which can be found here.

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