Discussion Why all the EU Hatred?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by JediMJS, Nov 1, 2012.

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  1. Varguitas Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 1
    Why not? The Clone Wars made them an interersting villain. Give them 40-50 years and they might have turned into something more powerful.
  2. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    Don't you think that's dangerous? I mean, do you want an editor deciding that something you love isn't canon, while something else from the EU is? And there's the danger of decanonizing connective tissue that makes nu-canon stories fall apart.

    What if Corran still exists in Rogue Squadron, but I, Jedi never happened?
  3. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Absolutly nothing (which is excatly whats stopping them from throwing this one out), and thats a good thing.

    Honestly, I don't believe you for a second, and if I'm wrong you'll be hte minority. When Disney publishs that first book in the "new continuity", if its good, people will will buy and read it.

    I got bad news for you, Episode VII will most likely tell you "No that didn't happen, here is what really happened".
    Jedi_Lover likes this.
  4. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    Not necessarily.

    Let me draw a parallel. The city I live in is, ethnically, about 50% white, 30% Latino, and 20% black. If we were to have a 10-person city council that was ethnically balanced, then, it would have 5 whites, 3 Latinos, and 2 blacks on it. There wouldn't be an equal number of whites, Latinos, and blacks on it, but there wouldn't have to be for it to be balanced. In fact, if there were an equal number of each on it, it would actually be unbalanced.

    So let's say, theoretically, that we could determine that the natural aggregate of positive and negative emotions in the galaxy was such that they were 66.6% positive and 33.3% negative. Thus, the Force itself, which reacts to those emotions, would be such that the light side was exactly twice as powerful as the dark side. And thus, a situation which reflected balance would be one in which, say, 2/3 of the galaxy would be controlled by forces aligned to the light side, and 1/3 would be controlled by forces aligned to the dark side.

    I know that's all kind of abstract, but the bottom line on this is that the dark and the light don;t have to be exactly equal in order to have balance, they just have to be represented in proportion to the dark and light side of the Force. My interpretation of what Yoda said to Luke on Dagobah (and this is just my own interpretation) is that the light side is more powerful than the dark side, so having more light side followers than dark side followers in the galaxy actually would still be "balance", but having no dark side followers at all would not be balance.
    Last edited by Narutakikun, Nov 22, 2012
  5. stellarmagic01 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    You have a point... which is why it's better to keep or drop elements that are connected together as a unit. Hence why if you're an editor you look for a nexus to cut... a focal point where everything before it is tied up, and the vast majority of unusable material is after it. A time like... Vector Prime.

    Hmm... don't the Marvel and DC Multiverses have like a special 'dark' universe? Well lets make one and put Vector Prime and it's follow ups there.
  6. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    It might be 50 years, it might be 35 years. We don't know yet. ANd of course "things will happen" between RotJ and episode VII, but having major character moments happen then expecting the audience to care without seeing them or being connected to them is how you make a bad movie. As I've said before, its why Luke didn't hear about Yoda in the 3 years between AHN and ESB.

    Hopefully they'll give it to us after Episode VII is released and you won't need a companion website to figure it all out.

    Don't worry, thats not going to happen. Way more likely the whole thing just gets "de-canonized" (it already has been........) and Disney and co. start over.

    if Episode VII is hugely successful, Disney is going to want to cash in on it. Thats means EU novels, but could/will also include tv shows and more movies. It makes way more sense for Disney to give themselves a blank slate to work in/with then force themslves to either adapt stuff or work around things.
  7. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    And fill the 20 year gap with what, @stellarmagic01? Could the Big Three aparently shed that amount of age?
    tsunami1138 likes this.
  8. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    You're confusing the light side of the Force with users of the light side of the Force. Theoretically, too much light side in the Force would be an imbalance, just as we were told in TCW during the Mortis arc. But lightsiders are not the light side.

    First, the relevant quotes from Lucas appeared during the prequel era, before ROTS was even shooting, not years after they were released. Also, the films do not say that the Jedi unbalance the Force toward the light. Claiming "the films say what they say" does not somehow make them say things which they never say once.

    But Force-users are not the Force. Balance in the Force does not require a Force-using organization such as the Sith to be present.

    Balance of the Force, not balance of the followers. Followers are not the Force.

    No, it isn't. It's the balance of the Force, not the balance of running things.

    The balance of the Force is the proportional relationship between the light and dark sides of the Force. This is confirmed in all levels of canon: C-canon ( books ), T-canon ( TCW ), and G-canon ( Lucas himself ). It has nothing to do with a balance of Force-users. There is only one form of balance mentioned in the films, and it is the balance of the Force, not a balance of Force-users. Since Lucas has said that balance is restored due to ROTJ, it is clear that his definition of the balance of the Force is not consistent with your version.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Nov 22, 2012
  9. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I agree it would be heart breaking if I Jedi were lost to non canon, but my focus would be things like Dark Empire due to clone Emperors and such... Things that are made non canon are in direct conflict with EP 7. However many EU haters want to make it so the Solos have different kids so all that of that will effectively be erased. The is completely unnecessary
    tsunami1138 likes this.
  10. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Getting a bit ahead of the facts, aren't we?

    That technique may have been very effective in the 1930s and 40s, but this is 2012. People are wise to it!
    tsunami1138 likes this.
  11. stellarmagic01 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    New material to dovetail to the new trilogy. Duh. That's just the most logical point to cut if you're going to do a bit of both.
  12. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    G-level canon included anything Lucas says

    Lucas has said the EU is its own seperate universe, most EU fans just like to ignore this.

    Multi. levels of canon had to be created. If everything was canon, there were would be no need for 4-5 levels of canon.
  13. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    True, Tim, check out the I SUPPORT THE EU thread in lit...

    That goes to all the EU fans out there
  14. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    Lucas also ordered the Holocron project into being....and employed a guy to operate it!
    tsunami1138 likes this.
  15. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    Doesn't mean its not a seperate universe.
  16. stellarmagic01 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Great, the fenton, Tim, and Kyris argument on the nature of the EU has begun again. I better walk away now and try and avoid being drawn in. XD
  17. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    There is a spot for you on our side. If I can't get the whole EU, I support the direction you want to take
  18. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    My point is that DC has been doing this in the last year. It's been very haphazard. Editors are retconning left and right to undo decisions made just months ago. Old events are getting ignored that fans would have seemed to want to keep, while pet projects from the company's favorite writers survive. There are a lot of dangerous politics to the surgical strike canon approach.

    I have nothing but sympathy for EU fans, even though I hate everything you love. :D I know that if I were in your shoes, I damn sure would not want to have anything to do with a post-reboot EU, whether it was a total retcon, or only parts.
    -NaTaLie- and tsunami1138 like this.
  19. stellarmagic01 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Great! Can I invoke multiverse principals and theory to smack fenton around?
  20. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I don't expect everyone to like EU. But could you accept a Jaina (and possible siblings) and Ben in the film? If you can accept those two things... then we have no problem...
  21. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    You think that would help?????????
  22. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Yes, and if they keep the whole EU, I expect you to be one of the best retconners too
  23. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Though we are going to keep the focus on one galaxy for a while until deemed unlikely or impossible
    tsunami1138 likes this.
  24. stellarmagic01 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Sure it would... Multiverse principals dictate that what happens in one universe affects the other universe. Even if the films and movies are seperate universes, the characters and relationships tend to spill over between the two so no matter what there will be EU presence in the films.
  25. fenton Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2001
    star 3
    No, because no characters like that kind of bagage and backstory aren't what you want or need to make a good movie/story.

    Can you accept not having those characters int he film? Espically considering they most likely won't be
    Last edited by fenton, Nov 22, 2012
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