Discussion Why all the EU Hatred?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by JediMJS, Nov 1, 2012.

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  1. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    Ah.. that would explain what happened between Obi-Wan and Satine.
  2. Artoo-Dion Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2009
    star 4
    Lucas, "in word and action", has consistently exploited the SW brand for all it's worth. I recall about 10-15 years ago Lucas saying in an interview that a core value his father gave to him was to always use all the parts of the buffalo--that is, don't waste opportunities to commercially exploit your product. And the history of the SW brand bears that out from the late '70s onwards. This is not a slam, BTW: my father is both an artist and a salesman (literally) and those qualities have been passed down to me, so I actually admire Lucas' ability to maintain artistic integrity while merchandising his art in the commercial sphere.

    The merchandising of SW has never been a secret. I was around 14 when I saw Heir to the Empire on the shelves at K-mart in paperback and immediately recognised it for what it was: more merchandise. The first clue was probably that it was a brand-name paperback on the shelves at K-mart. The second clue was the language used: "...Lucasfilm Ltd. [note, not George Lucas the artist but his corporate entity], producer of the Star Wars movies, has authorized [in other words, licensed for monetary purposes] the continuation of this beloved story."

    Certainly LFL (again, a corporate entity) has not dissuaded some fans in their delusion that the EU is anything other a cynical cash-grab (and why would they?), but Lucas the artist has been quite clear since at least 2001 that the EU is not meaningfully connected to the movies: "There's my world, which is the movies, and there's this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe—the licensing world of the books, games and comic books."
    Count Yubnub likes this.
  3. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    Until the Paternity suits and Child Support claims start rolling in!
    SuperWatto likes this.
  4. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    So the Jedi charity fund started as a Claims for Fathers gig?

    Makes sense. Clearly Yoda was a player.
    SuperWatto likes this.
  5. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    Wouldn't they use condoms? Or maybe they'd "use the Force" for that purpose. [face_thinking]
  6. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    I am guilty of distraction, but lets try and stay on target :p
  7. Moorplant Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2004
    But LFL as always been upfront about the "Levels of Canon" and how far he and the company play the "one big Universe" game. That's why they have a EU continuity guy in the 1st place. G canon trumps everything, from stuff that was written before ESB came out to changing Karen Traviss's beloved ideas about her Mandalorians in TWC. And retcons then happen as they try and fit mixed media platforms and Lucas ideas and other author ideas together, as they have since SOTME. He's always been upfront that the post ROTJ stuff isn;t necessarily his vision for what happens to the characters after the movie.
    Last edited by Moorplant, Nov 27, 2012
  8. stellarmagic01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    You know what would be interesting... a Dark Times story featuring that pair (If Satine survives the war). If I remember my mandalorian culture right... they don't particularly care that much about where their children come from, you've got lots of adoptions by them, and perhaps by extension children out of wedlock, and so forth. I'd think that would be something that could still be around even in the 'New Mandalorian' sect that Satine represents.

    But at the same time, that'd be a good story for those few romantics that are in the Star Wars universe right. Imagine this... Palpatine decides that in order to consolidate his power he has Imperial Governors backed by troops installed on those worlds that were neutral in the war and depose the local governments... Leading to the Marvel Comic's figure of Suprema being sent to Mandalore.

    Satine discovers a small number of jedi younglings that escaped the temple on Coruscant and tries to smuggle them to the Mandalorian sector, and contacts Kenobi for help. Kenobi returns to mandalore and assumes an alias as a mandalorian (he's taken Mandalorian aliases twice in TCW so far) and tries to help find families willing to shelter the younglings while Suprema tightens his grip.

    The primary reason the two remained separate is gone (The Jedi Order and her position as a Senator) leading in a delightful romantic arc that ends in tragedy when the Imperials storm them... Maybe if you really wanted to be ornery you could hint that Satine has a kid 2 years after RoTS which is abducted and brought to Palpy *wink wink*.

    Sounds like a fun book, I'd buy it.

    Stay on target man!

    Anyway, we know there will be changes in the EU no matter what. Continuity and Canon is not and never should be considered holy writ, especially when someone like Lucas is involved... I mean just look at the Special Editions man!
  9. Cantina Bassist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2

    That must be the EU version of Han. Fixed indeed.
  10. OldTimeFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2011
    star 1
    I have not read the 51 pages of posts by I will answer the question why all the EU hate?

    I am a Star Wars movie fan I seen all of them in the Cinema had the VHS tapes then the Widescreen special edition tapes the DVDs and now the Blu Rays.

    I don't hate the EU but I think it should have no place in movie cannon.

    If they come up with a decent story for these new movies I don't want the screenplay to be constrained by events in the EU.

    I am looking forward to action cool battles and a bit of fun not a nerdfeast.
  11. Jedi_Lover Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2004
    star 5
    Hopefully we won't be feasting on nerds. I heard they are a bit chewie. :p
    Pro Scoundrel likes this.
  12. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    Nah, Han being Leia's ***** supersedes all concepts of canon.
    SithLordDarthRichie likes this.
  13. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    No reward is worth this!!!
    MiraxTerrik, eht13 and LawJedi like this.
  14. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    Not offended at all, and thanks for the recommendations. Yes, ROTS is a movie novelization. I realized that the list of SW novels I've read is pretty small, and that was actually part of my point (that maybe wasn't made clear); it didn't take too much for me to realize that I just prefer SW as a visual and aural medium. I like reading, but I guess I prefer to read non-SW stuff. Add to that that I have heard about the storylines of other novels, as well as read plot summaries of them, and as I said many of them just seem silly to me (no offense intended to those who enjoy them).
  15. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    Just for the record, the point I made about Ki-Adi-Mundi wasn't about him being married. It was about him being a Jedi Council member without being a Master, something which is explicitly contradicted by ROTS.
  16. Krueger Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2004
    star 4
    This is where I'm at.
    OldTimeFan likes this.
  17. KamSolusar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 2
    Seems Lucas hadn't thought about this back in '99. IIRC, in the early 2000s the official site databank even said that Kenobi never attained the rank of Jedi Master.They later quietly changed/removed that part. So I wouldn't blame it on the comic, it's probably just another instance of Lucas changing his mind.
  18. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    My intention wasn't to place blame. I understood that the comic was written before that particular plot point was created for the movie, so it didn't bother me when the movie contradicted it directly. I was just illustrating that some things can't really be retconned and nobody seems to mind as long as it's something relatively minor in the overall scheme of things, so why is it that people have such a harder time accepting discrepancies on a larger scale? Why does the universe of the EU have to match up with the universe of the movies, when even the movie novelizations are different than the films? I've always treated the films and EU as slightly different universes anyway, as has Lucas from my understanding. I just don't see why it would be suddenly worth getting all up in arms about if the films took an even larger departure from the EU then they previously have.
  19. Mirax Terrik Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2000
    star 5
    I started reading this thread from the beginning, but stopped after a dozen pages because I think I see where the main problem lies. The people who seem to hate EU have only been exposed to a small portion of it. Granted, a lot of the EU has been horribly disappointing, but I think you're doing yourself a disservice to proclaim all EU to be garbage if the only book you happened to read was Crystal Star (God help you) or the only game you ever tried to play was KOTOR II (which I think would have been fantastic if it could have been finished properly). If those were the only examples of SW EU I'd ever been exposed to, I'm sure I'd be at arms against such things to be worth considering for the future films.

    But here's the thing: Star Wars is a gigantic franchise. Every one of us has found a little niche of what we love about Star Wars and created our own version of what "canon" ought to be. It'll never be clear what the official canon of Star Wars is, Lucas himself can't decide if the number of revisions done to the movies are any indication, and honestly, I don't think it really matters.

    Star Wars is magical because we take the parts we like and the hell with the rest. Whatever made us love Star Wars in the first place will not diminish because of a new crappy addition to the EU or IMHO the entire PT. Star Wars has such a wonderful community because of the multifaceted way in which they've given us entertainment. As long as Disney keeps that approach, and gives us quality entertainment, I really don't give a damn what they put in the coming movies. All I want is a compelling story set with the planets and physics and mythos of the SW universe. Hell, set it a million years from where EU has been charted out so that the events of the OT and PT don't even matter, much less need to be mentioned. Or hey, maybe the entire galaxy got its ass handed to them by some inconquerable space flu and there is a serious restructuring of society (I realize these ideas are extremely lame, but I'm working on no sleep for the past 48 hours so bear with me). As long as the Force exists, and inhabitable planets are full of different aliens and cultures, and there is a good story, it will be Star Wars.

    As a side complaint, I've been increasingly disgusted at the way Jedi have been used in both the prequels and EU and I'll be glad to be rid of them as main characters. I realize laser swords are very close to the heart of many Star Wars lovers and are iconic to the franchise, but I'm tired of the Jedi. I'm tired of these increasingly epic and ridiculous stories where the fate of the galaxy seem to rest solely on some conflict involving the Jedi and/or Sith with good and evil are being fought in the abstract. Episode IV had all of this stuff mostly in the background while focusing specifically on the stories of a few important characters doing exciting and crazy things. The Jedi may have been peacekeepers of the galaxy for thousands of years, but they weren't the only beings in the galaxy. I would love to see a movie where Jedi or Force-sensitive individuals were in supporting roles while a new adventure unfolds. I would absolutely love to see a movie based entirely on smugglers on Nar Shaddaa or a movie based entirely on Corellians, but I realize my biases are showing, so I'll stop here.

    As far as EU goes, I think some references are going to be inevitable in the new movies just because I have a hard time imagining Disney successfully keeping hardcore EU nuts (of which I consider myself) away from working on the sequels just because of the sheer number of us. If I recognize an EU reference, it'll make me happy to be able to sperg out at my friends some more, but it's not hugely important to me. I just want that feeling of magic to come wash over the screen goes dark and "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away..." hovers there right before the opening blast from the London Symphony Orchestra.
    Last edited by MiraxTerrik, Nov 30, 2012
  20. Julius Vernon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 3
    One thing that shocks me here is how it seems to be an all or nothing approach. Why does maintaining EU continuity mean that the movies can't have "cool battles and a bit of fun"?

    I think they could maintain EU continuity to a logical extent, make great movies, and keep film purists and EU fans all happy. It is not an all or nothing affair.
    KamSolusar likes this.
  21. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    star 3
    I love the EU for all it is, but I don't think I will be overwhelmingly devastated if it is scrapped with this ST. I think it would open the door for a new cohesive EU that has direct connection to the films. Everything would be the same level of canon potentially, and that is something I would look forward to. I would hope they would enlist some of the former authors to write if they do a total EU reboot though.

    Hatred for the EU largely comes about from being misunderstood. I hear the arguments of "everyone comes back to life" "The plots are just the same thing over and over" "The writing quality is simply poor" "They always contradict the movies". It doesn't really bother me if others dislike the EU. Enough of the fanbase enjoys them otherwise it would not have become nearly as successful as it has. I guess it mostly depends on personal taste to an extent. I will admit that there are some major flaws with the EU that get on my nerves at times.

    Truth be told I think we stand the potential for an incredibly bright future for Star Wars as a whole. I think this will be an era of total continuity between all Star Wars media, and that is an exciting thought in my mind.
  22. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    There will be references to EU characters & events, some may even feature/be mentioned as has been the case in some of the other movies.

    But I don't want to see nor do I expect plot points from EU books to be used, especially if they go down the route of re-doing the plot from the movies and bringing back dead charactes like much of the EU likes to do.
  23. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    star 3
    Not trying to start an argument, but how many different stories have their been in the EU? And out of those how many have brought officially dead characters back to life? I just never grasped this argument as a reason to dislike the EU. It is the incredible rarity as opposed to the norm.
  24. Quin'sal'nuruodo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    To the unending issue of the dead I give you all a simply answer. Keep it simple! You honestly don't have say everything that happened the simple answer is that Anakin Solo died as a a hero in a war that during the next trilogy can be enlightened about considering the magnitude of the war the audience will get the fact that some guys came and mess crap up. Next Jacen is the most simple since it also answers Mara's death, He went bad and Mara tried to stop him very simple concept that people seem to want to blow out of proportion. what this also does is get the audience interested as to the details and a campaign similar to Star wars Read Day can be started to interested people in the joy of reading.
    Esg likes this.
  25. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    If that's a reference to Boba Fett, SLDR, then Lucas himself is said to have thought about showing him escaping the Sarlacc in the SE. He is quoted as saying that "most people don't think that he's dead" in relation to Fett.

    If it's a reference to the Emperor in DE, then Lucas was also seemingly involved in that one, by rejecting the plotline of the 'fake Vader" and approving that of the "clone Emperor".

    Also, a good proportion of the howls for an EU reboot seem to be coming about the fact that Chewbacca died in 25 ABY according to the EU!
    Last edited by Tim Battershell, Nov 30, 2012
    Esg likes this.
  26. Quin'sal'nuruodo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    To you sir I ask have you read ALL the series from the X-wing to Thrawn and the New Jedi Order to Fate of the Jedi. If so then I will accept your opionin and even like the others agree to some factors in the storyline that don't add up. However if you have read these epic series then like so many others who hate on the EU with no basis I say SHUT UP AND GO READ THEM.
    Esg likes this.
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