Lit Why all the LOTF hate?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by The Supreme Chancellor, Jun 2, 2013.

  1. The Compeer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2013
    star 2
    I'm pretty sure the editors were shirking their responsibilities as well. How many problems with this series could have been cleaned up if someone had been in charge of making sure it was coherent and non-sucky?
    aleja2 and Gamiel like this.
  2. son_of_skywalker03 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2003
    star 4
    I think we can all agree; whenever there's a multi-author book series being published in the Star Wars universe, James Luceno is in charge of the overall story, and gets the final book.
  3. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    So, Jacen was "corrupted" in The Unifying Force per Troy Denning.

    What's really being said here is that Troy Denning doesn't buy what is canon, so he changes it.

    Of course, it doesn't just stop with him disagreeing with another author having a different view of the Force. If he disagrees with another author about anything he changes it. Or if he disagrees with George Lucas, as we've seen.

    "Canon" is meaningless, and has been since 2005.
    Zeta1127 and Revanfan1 like this.
  4. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    Finished Revelation. There was bad in it: Pellaeon's death, Tahiri's characterization, every scene Jacen was in, the incessant Jedi-bashing...yeah. There was bad in it.

    But. There was good in it. Luke actually tries one last time to save Jacen. Jaina learns some hard lessons. Ben finds out about his mother's killer. Lon Shevu. And I think this may actually be the only book that ever shows Ben and Jag have a little brother-big brother relationship, and that's sad because I really like the idea. I mean, seriously, the two of them should be hanging out all the time. Ben had no male friends in his life besides his dad and Uncle Han...and actually I don't think he has female friends at all besides Jaina, Leia, apparently Tahiri (according to Crucible), and at one time Vestara. Stars, the boy needs a friend. Anyways, off-topic. Sorry.

    Now, you can say what you want. But I karking loved the last chapter and the epilogue. It was all perfect. Sintas and Boba coming to terms. Mirta's wedding. One last appearance for Jaing and Mird. The great conversation between Bardan and Jaina. And for those of you who say Bardan was bashing Luke's Jedi Order, I didn't see that. I saw him bashing the Old Jedi Order, being rueful about how his people had failed. I loved how Kad'ika looked lovingly on his mother's lightsabers, and how Jaina took up a Jedi, not Mandalorian, form when fighting him. I loved the epilogue because Luke got to see Mara again. The only thing I disliked about the final chapter–the only thing–was the implication of a Boba-Daala "intimate" relationship...especially so soon after Boba and Sintas made up. That came way out of left field, and not in a good way. Other than that, though, I really loved it.

    Now, for the worst of the worst: Invincible. [face_nail_biting]

    Edit: Yep, as I predicted, one chapter in and already hating Invincible. Because apparently Jaina overhears Fett's conversation with Daala on the Bloodfin back in Revelation, when she wasn't even mentioned as being anywhere near in that book, and since Fett and Daala were talking about whether or not it'd be better to have a galaxy without Force users (and I don't think they even said that; they just didn't want the Jedi to have a say in the government), Jaina assumes that the two of them are masterminding to get rid of all Jedi and that Fett's kindness to her is faked? lolwut? Thanks a lot, Denning, you've already made my forehead hurt from repeated facepalming. :rolleyes:

    Then there's the fact that Fett would go anywhere and leave his rifle and jetpack on his ship, which is ridiculous. And Boba saying he doesn't care if Jaina or Caedus win their confrontation...URGH! You've got to be kidding me! Thank you, Denning, for showing me that your books after Star by Star and Tatooine Ghost were nothing more than elaborate plots to character-assassinate the characters you didn't like...and even some of the ones you did! It's a good thing Star by Star and Tatooine Ghost are good books, because if they weren't then Denning would be a completely irredeemable author for me. Oh, and one more (minor) complaint; Jaina went to Mandalore in Revelation wearing a gray flight suit because she didn't want to appear to be a Jedi; the implication was that she didn't even take any robes with her. Yet Denning says her "robes were flapping". When did she have time to go home, get robes, and come back? :rolleyes:

    This is just one chapter in, now. Can't wait to see the rant I build up by the time I finish! :rolleyes:
    Last edited by Revanfan1, Sep 14, 2013
  5. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    That's the odd thing, though. That makes perfect sense for Daala, who is the Female Tarkin. Who wanted to murder a trillion people on Coruscant because LOLZ!

    Who already tried to murder the entire Jedi Academy.

    As for Fett--well, he's the guy who mounted and stuffed her father.
  6. Team Padme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Am I the only one who actually really enjoyed Invincible?
  7. JackG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
  8. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    "really enjoyed"? As in liked a lot? Yes. That being said there were parts of it I liked. Such as the quotes from Jacen's childhood at the start of some chapters where he'd make jokes, nice callback to the YJK days. I also enjoyed the first chapter or so where we saw Caedus thoughts on himself, Allana, and the galaxy.
    darth fluffy and Revanfan1 like this.
  9. Normal_Nerds Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2013
    star 1
    I listened to the audiobook for that one and there were parts that I did enjoy. Jaina vs Jacen set to the Anakin vs Obi-Wan music from RotS? That's a win for me.

    I think that by the time the final book came, most people were fed up of a story that could have been more effective if it had been at least five books shorter.
  10. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    Oh, boy. Leia and Han bondage jokes! Leia in a mini-vest and short shorts being all flirty! [face_plain]

    Luke can't kill Caedus because he might do something bad like kill Caedus! [face_plain]

    (I'll admit, though, that it was explained better where he knew he would go dark if he tried to kill Caedus.)

    There is some good, though. Ben vs. Tahiri, though short, was very nice, and I liked seeing more of Shevu. One thing that niggled at me, though, is that it says Shevu's beard is fake, just a disguise–and that really peeved me because I had this awesome image of a late-twenties dude with black hair and an awesome goatee. Now I'm peeved because he doesn't have a beard. :(
  11. Solent Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2001
    star 2
    To close a talk where the main issue was killing their son.

    :eek: What?

    They have what´s probably the worst SW moment ever, Christmas Special included.
  12. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4
    not super fond of either one.
  13. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    I don't mean the seduction scene. I mean the scene in the plaza where they were fighting. Tahiri said "Don't send that message. I won't hesitate to kill you." Ben says, "You just did!" (Best. Comeback. Ever.), sends the message, throws his comlink in the air, and then they fight, albeit briefly. No, I wasn't referring to the seduction scene, I promise you.
  14. Todd the Jedi Mod and Sitcom Dad of SWTV - Vacationing and stuff

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Oct 16, 2008
    star 5
    As much as I didn't like Tahiri's "fall", I did like that it was Ben who brought her back to her senses in the end. He came a long way from the idiotic stuff he did earlier in the series, and I feel that was a real defining moment for his character.
    Revanfan1 likes this.
  15. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    Idiotic stuff like slashing Zekk's gut open? Agreed.
  16. JediMatteus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2008
    star 4

    yes
  17. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    Yay! Denning finally wrote a Mandalorian who was likeable, Vatok Tawr! The fact that he accomplished this in and of itself is astronomical, but the fact that Vatok also posed a challenge to Caedus in a fight makes me wonder if Traviss didn't write a few pages of Invincible–and then when it says Jaina fired 100 bolts from her sniper in 3 seconds, I realized that no, it's just Denning writing. :oops:

    Of course, that still doesn't lessen the accomplishment of Denning, of all people, writing a likeable Mandalorian instead of making them despicable scumbags. The fact that Vatok Tawr even had a crush on Jaina–and that Jaina considered him a friend despite the fact that apparently Denning!Jaina hates Boba and mistrusts Mirta (and that in and of itself is ridiculous given all that happened in Revelation)–and that said Mando actually stood up to Caedus for a few seconds, is amazing.
  18. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    Maybe it wasn't supposed to make the Mandalorian look good, but just further diminish the villain since that seemed to be the theme of the series. Make the villain was impotent and unthreatening as possible yet successful through the stupidity of the protagonists.
  19. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    Seems that way, sometimes, eh? Really sad.
  20. Solent Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2001
    star 2
    Not even that. Even after they turn against Jacen and keep handing him his ass time and again, somehow in the last book he´s on the edge of ruling the galaxy.
  21. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    Really is facepalm-worthy, isn't it?
  22. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    He's the most threatening villain since Darth Vader!
  23. son_of_skywalker03 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2003
    star 4
    Maybe if the only other villain one can think of is Daala.
  24. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    You mean, Daala-the-ever-living?
  25. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    Part of me what Daala to turn into the EU:s Baxter Stockman: losing body parts in every episode/time she appears, replacing it with cybernetics until she doing a Herman von Klempt and then a Anevka Sturmvoraus!