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Lit Why all the LOTF hate?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by The Supreme Chancellor, Jun 2, 2013.

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  1. The Compeer

    The Compeer Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2013
    I'm pretty sure the editors were shirking their responsibilities as well. How many problems with this series could have been cleaned up if someone had been in charge of making sure it was coherent and non-sucky?
     
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  2. son_of_skywalker03

    son_of_skywalker03 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2003
    I think we can all agree; whenever there's a multi-author book series being published in the Star Wars universe, James Luceno is in charge of the overall story, and gets the final book.
     
  3. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    So, Jacen was "corrupted" in The Unifying Force per Troy Denning.

    What's really being said here is that Troy Denning doesn't buy what is canon, so he changes it.

    Of course, it doesn't just stop with him disagreeing with another author having a different view of the Force. If he disagrees with another author about anything he changes it. Or if he disagrees with George Lucas, as we've seen.

    "Canon" is meaningless, and has been since 2005.
     
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  4. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Finished Revelation. There was bad in it: Pellaeon's death, Tahiri's characterization, every scene Jacen was in, the incessant Jedi-bashing...yeah. There was bad in it.

    But. There was good in it. Luke actually tries one last time to save Jacen. Jaina learns some hard lessons. Ben finds out about his mother's killer. Lon Shevu. And I think this may actually be the only book that ever shows Ben and Jag have a little brother-big brother relationship, and that's sad because I really like the idea. I mean, seriously, the two of them should be hanging out all the time. Ben had no male friends in his life besides his dad and Uncle Han...and actually I don't think he has female friends at all besides Jaina, Leia, apparently Tahiri (according to Crucible), and at one time Vestara. Stars, the boy needs a friend. Anyways, off-topic. Sorry.

    Now, you can say what you want. But I karking loved the last chapter and the epilogue. It was all perfect. Sintas and Boba coming to terms. Mirta's wedding. One last appearance for Jaing and Mird. The great conversation between Bardan and Jaina. And for those of you who say Bardan was bashing Luke's Jedi Order, I didn't see that. I saw him bashing the Old Jedi Order, being rueful about how his people had failed. I loved how Kad'ika looked lovingly on his mother's lightsabers, and how Jaina took up a Jedi, not Mandalorian, form when fighting him. I loved the epilogue because Luke got to see Mara again. The only thing I disliked about the final chapter–the only thing–was the implication of a Boba-Daala "intimate" relationship...especially so soon after Boba and Sintas made up. That came way out of left field, and not in a good way. Other than that, though, I really loved it.

    Now, for the worst of the worst: Invincible. [face_nail_biting]

    Edit: Yep, as I predicted, one chapter in and already hating Invincible. Because apparently Jaina overhears Fett's conversation with Daala on the Bloodfin back in Revelation, when she wasn't even mentioned as being anywhere near in that book, and since Fett and Daala were talking about whether or not it'd be better to have a galaxy without Force users (and I don't think they even said that; they just didn't want the Jedi to have a say in the government), Jaina assumes that the two of them are masterminding to get rid of all Jedi and that Fett's kindness to her is faked? lolwut? Thanks a lot, Denning, you've already made my forehead hurt from repeated facepalming. :rolleyes:

    Then there's the fact that Fett would go anywhere and leave his rifle and jetpack on his ship, which is ridiculous. And Boba saying he doesn't care if Jaina or Caedus win their confrontation...URGH! You've got to be kidding me! Thank you, Denning, for showing me that your books after Star by Star and Tatooine Ghost were nothing more than elaborate plots to character-assassinate the characters you didn't like...and even some of the ones you did! It's a good thing Star by Star and Tatooine Ghost are good books, because if they weren't then Denning would be a completely irredeemable author for me. Oh, and one more (minor) complaint; Jaina went to Mandalore in Revelation wearing a gray flight suit because she didn't want to appear to be a Jedi; the implication was that she didn't even take any robes with her. Yet Denning says her "robes were flapping". When did she have time to go home, get robes, and come back? :rolleyes:

    This is just one chapter in, now. Can't wait to see the rant I build up by the time I finish! :rolleyes:
     
  5. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    That's the odd thing, though. That makes perfect sense for Daala, who is the Female Tarkin. Who wanted to murder a trillion people on Coruscant because LOLZ!

    Who already tried to murder the entire Jedi Academy.

    As for Fett--well, he's the guy who mounted and stuffed her father.
     
  6. Allana_Rey

    Allana_Rey Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Am I the only one who actually really enjoyed Invincible?
     
  7. JackG

    JackG Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2011
    Probably.
     
  8. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2011
    "really enjoyed"? As in liked a lot? Yes. That being said there were parts of it I liked. Such as the quotes from Jacen's childhood at the start of some chapters where he'd make jokes, nice callback to the YJK days. I also enjoyed the first chapter or so where we saw Caedus thoughts on himself, Allana, and the galaxy.
     
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  9. Normal_Nerds

    Normal_Nerds Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 21, 2013
    I listened to the audiobook for that one and there were parts that I did enjoy. Jaina vs Jacen set to the Anakin vs Obi-Wan music from RotS? That's a win for me.

    I think that by the time the final book came, most people were fed up of a story that could have been more effective if it had been at least five books shorter.
     
  10. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Oh, boy. Leia and Han bondage jokes! Leia in a mini-vest and short shorts being all flirty! [face_plain]

    Luke can't kill Caedus because he might do something bad like kill Caedus! [face_plain]

    (I'll admit, though, that it was explained better where he knew he would go dark if he tried to kill Caedus.)

    There is some good, though. Ben vs. Tahiri, though short, was very nice, and I liked seeing more of Shevu. One thing that niggled at me, though, is that it says Shevu's beard is fake, just a disguise–and that really peeved me because I had this awesome image of a late-twenties dude with black hair and an awesome goatee. Now I'm peeved because he doesn't have a beard. :(
     
  11. Solent

    Solent Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 2001
    To close a talk where the main issue was killing their son.

    :eek: What?

    They have what´s probably the worst SW moment ever, Christmas Special included.
     
  12. JediMatteus

    JediMatteus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2008
    not super fond of either one.
     
  13. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013
    I don't mean the seduction scene. I mean the scene in the plaza where they were fighting. Tahiri said "Don't send that message. I won't hesitate to kill you." Ben says, "You just did!" (Best. Comeback. Ever.), sends the message, throws his comlink in the air, and then they fight, albeit briefly. No, I wasn't referring to the seduction scene, I promise you.
     
  14. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Soliloquist of SWTV star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    As much as I didn't like Tahiri's "fall", I did like that it was Ben who brought her back to her senses in the end. He came a long way from the idiotic stuff he did earlier in the series, and I feel that was a real defining moment for his character.
     
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  15. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Idiotic stuff like slashing Zekk's gut open? Agreed.
     
  16. JediMatteus

    JediMatteus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2008

    yes
     
  17. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 3, 2013
    Yay! Denning finally wrote a Mandalorian who was likeable, Vatok Tawr! The fact that he accomplished this in and of itself is astronomical, but the fact that Vatok also posed a challenge to Caedus in a fight makes me wonder if Traviss didn't write a few pages of Invincible–and then when it says Jaina fired 100 bolts from her sniper in 3 seconds, I realized that no, it's just Denning writing. :oops:

    Of course, that still doesn't lessen the accomplishment of Denning, of all people, writing a likeable Mandalorian instead of making them despicable scumbags. The fact that Vatok Tawr even had a crush on Jaina–and that Jaina considered him a friend despite the fact that apparently Denning!Jaina hates Boba and mistrusts Mirta (and that in and of itself is ridiculous given all that happened in Revelation)–and that said Mando actually stood up to Caedus for a few seconds, is amazing.
     
  18. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Maybe it wasn't supposed to make the Mandalorian look good, but just further diminish the villain since that seemed to be the theme of the series. Make the villain was impotent and unthreatening as possible yet successful through the stupidity of the protagonists.
     
  19. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 3, 2013
    Seems that way, sometimes, eh? Really sad.
     
  20. Solent

    Solent Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 2001
    Not even that. Even after they turn against Jacen and keep handing him his ass time and again, somehow in the last book he´s on the edge of ruling the galaxy.
     
  21. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jun 3, 2013
    Really is facepalm-worthy, isn't it?
     
  22. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    He's the most threatening villain since Darth Vader!
     
  23. son_of_skywalker03

    son_of_skywalker03 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Maybe if the only other villain one can think of is Daala.
     
  24. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    You mean, Daala-the-ever-living?
     
  25. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Part of me what Daala to turn into the EU:s Baxter Stockman: losing body parts in every episode/time she appears, replacing it with cybernetics until she doing a Herman von Klempt and then a Anevka Sturmvoraus!
     
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