Saga Why are Grievous's robotics so superior to Vader's?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by darth ladnar, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Well, yea, but normals also have to focus on defending their most vulnerable regions, not the expandable ones.
    Sarge likes this.
  2. FRAGWAGON Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Vader's chest panel is still the most ridiculous design in all of the movies. And I love it! Space Operas are all about form, not function. How about that ludicrous radar dish on top of the Falcon....
    Gamiel and Son of a Bith like this.
  3. bstnsx704 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2013
    star 3

    So that's what the radar dish is for! It receives the signal for the Falcon's Ludicrous Drive!
  4. FRAGWAGON Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Ha!! I never even thought of that....
  5. El Jedi Colombiano Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2013
    star 2
    I think it should be understood that with Grievous, the only things that remained of him where his organs and his head. They had to reconstruct him almost entirely as a robot, and one that could be incredibly agile and good at fighting. With Darth Vader, it was much harder to actually do that, due to the fact that he wasn't as destroyed as Grievous was. Vader had to be given a breathing mask in order to survive, and that was a much heavier robotic than the one Grievous used.

    In part it was out of Grievous limitations that were forced to completely rebuilt him, and in part with Vader he had other issues that forced for much heavier robotics to be used.
  6. darthbarracuda Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 2
    The Confederacy wanted an unstoppable megalomaniac. So they blew up Grievous' ship, tampered with his brain, and made him into a cyborg piece of awesomeness.

    Sidious originally wanted Anakin being fully-human, as it wouldn't limit his power. But he realized that Anakin might overthrow him. So when he was putting Anakin into the suit, he didn't use any pain-relievers, as to increase his rage. I remember reading somewhere that Sidious put Anakin into a suit that was waaaaay outdated. He could have put him into something even better than Grievous, but decided not to as to limit Anakin's power. Not only would that stop him from overthrowing the Emperor, but would also increase his rage and ultimately make his escape from the dark side impossible.

    At least that's the in-universe explanation.

    Outside of it; ILM was already pushing the limits in technology when they did the special effects and all in the OT. Honestly, if they could have made a Grievous-like character back in the 70's, they probably would have. The other effects would also be a lot better, so it wouldn't seem out of place.

    That's why Lucas decided to do the OT before the PT. There's an obvious difference in the special effects. Lucas could never have effectively done the PT in the 70's. There wouldn't be any way to pull it off.

    Also, up to then, the PT never really had a major antagonist. There was Dooku, but no one really cared to much about him. He was kinda a wannabe. And Maul was only there for one episode, actually for about a half of one. He was only really cool cause of the special lightsaber.

    Sidious is bad the whole way through, but no one knows it.

    Grievous comes along. Four-armed, cybord, leader of the CIS, commander of the entire CIS forces, collects lightsabers of fallen enemies...badass. Finally we have a dude who we can actually call a "bad guy".
  7. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Maul and Dooku are as much antagonists as Grievous.
    Trebor Sabreon likes this.
  8. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    It's not the canon version. In Dark Lord (were only a heavily depressed Vader thinks the suit is outdated), Sidious is of the opinion that Vaders weaknesses are entirely mental. That his self doubt and him clinging to the past weakened him in the darkside.
    darth ladnar and darthbarracuda like this.
  9. JEDI-RISING Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 15, 2005
    star 3
    probably because Grievous was almost totally droid, where as Vader was still more than half man and the mechanical parts were supporting the broken human parts.
  10. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader explains the medical droids weren't very good.
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  11. Stormtrooper Dave Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2013
    star 1
    Personally, I think because Anakin/Vader is a human, his mechanical attachments seriously limit his maneuverability and flexibility. Grievous, conversely, is more or less a living head with completely mechanical attachments, and the design of his mechanical parts result in the ability to perform unrestricted maneuvers.

    The idea of Vader's suit being a "prison" is an interesting one; however, I really have only pictured it as his lifesource. As we see in return Of The Jedi, his damaged breathing apparatus results in Vader being able to sustain life for a very short period of time.
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  12. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    And if he is only delusional because of his severe depression? I doubt Palpatine would use outdated medical droids when his pupil was already on the brink of death. Its inviting problems.
    darthbarracuda likes this.
  13. General Valerian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2013
    star 4
    I believe it's just the fact that the OT was made more than 30 years ago... They didn't have the film tech to make Vader seem all-powerful and agile and deadly. It's no punishment (his suit) because even with it Vader is stated to be 80% to Sidious' power, which is considerable. Just think about it... If the OT was remade with today's tech, would Vader be portrayed as he was in the original OT? I seriously doubt it.
    darthbarracuda likes this.
  14. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    We're lucky he was portrayed back then. Today he would jump around like the incredible hulk and would never feel as real as back then.
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  15. General Valerian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2013
    star 4
    True, he would probably be overpowered. But I do would like to see a Vader without the limitations of 30+ year old tech.
  16. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    We'll have to wait 'til 2016 for that as I am like 95% positive we will see Vader in the first spinoff at least. Or I guess until Rebels starts but Animation is not the same as live action.
  17. General Valerian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2013
    star 4
  18. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Sure, Rebels will be animated.
  19. Lord Cipher Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Sidious purposely did make the suit restricted, as a punishment for Vader's failure on Mustafar. Sidious, indeed, wanted Vader to succeed him. But he could not do to him being burned. Vader would've been Sidious x2. If Sidious has put him in sith stalker armor, he would be much more powerful. But preferably the Dark Lord's Variant to cover up the burned skin.
  20. twowolves Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2013
    star 4
    Here's a possibility so subtle, but so plausible that it only dawned on me after reading the books.

    We all know Vader was supposed to be Palpatine's big ace in his sleeve. Consider: He told Yoda in the Senate Chamber that his apprentice was more powerful than both of them combined. Palpatine would also have researched Tatooine to the last detail, and would have know about the ability of the Bo'marr (sorry if the spelling is off) monks' ability to transfer the brain of a person into a whole new body (as they did with Bib Fortuna). He didn't need this himself; he had his Master's secret Sith lore of spirit transference. Palpatine could have just grown Anakin a new clone body, not worrying about clone madness for growing it fast because the brain would have gone in the waste pile to make room for Anakin's. Moreover, growing a clone body would have preserved Palpatine's secret Sith lore of spirit transference, keeping it from his apprentice, unlike his Master, who had taught it to him, and was summarily slain. Instead, he chose to allow Anakin to remain in a cybernetic suit, which actually weakened Anakin's connection to the Force, and therein is the key. Palpatine knew that every Sith apprentice eventually tried to rise against his Master, and if it wouldn't be Vader, it would be the public, or the Rebels, or someone else (also the reason he grew clones of himself on Byss).

    The answer is: Palpatine was scared of Anakin's power (remember what he said to Yoda--had it been Anakin and not Windu, Palpatine would have lost that battle at the end of Revenge of the Sith), which was far greater than his. He knew Vader was (and would be--remember, Palpatine had a talent for Force visions) still hard to control because he felt emotions like love and passion, anger, and hatred so deeply, after witnessing this reaction when he told Vader in the suit that Padme was dead at his own hands. It also seems likely that Palpatine may have misinterpreted the Prophecy of Rana Tey about the Chosen One, assuming that it was Vader, and thus, the prophecy had been averted.

    It is highly likely that Vader hated Palpatine from that point on (inferred from books and movies) because he realized he'd been played to serve Palpatine's ends, and relied upon the suit to live.It seems in the books that Anakin realizes this from the very moment he wakes up in the suit, and hates himself most of all, turning that hatred to trying to overthrow Palpatine (Starkiller, Luke). Furthermore, Vader would have likely known about the Bo'marr as well in the time between being put in the suit and the battle of Endor, but, like Palpatine, was too addicted to power to risk their brain in something like that (though Palpatine didn't actually need such methods).

    Palpatine used the suit to keep Vader's ambitions in check because it was only at the Palpatine Medical Center (or whatever it was called) on Coruscant where Vader could have his suit cleaned and refitted every six months or so, something that was both critical and a constant reminder of his dependence on Palpatine's "generosity."
    Last edited by twowolves, Oct 7, 2013
  21. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Technically, he said in the future tense that Anakin would be more powerful than either of them individually, not combined.
  22. twowolves Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2013
    star 4

    Oops! Sorry! Good catch. Still, it would provide sufficient reason for Palpatine to leave him in the suit rather than clone him a new body. Palpatine would undoubtedly be thinking of how he killed his master, and wouldn't want Vader to attempt the same. The Emperor always struck me as the paranoid sort... The suit, would therefore have been a check to Vader's possible desire for revenge against Palpatine, and any attempts to overthrow him. This would also explain why Palpatine encouraged Xixor's attention; Vader hated him, and the feeling was mutual. There is ample evidence that Vader did desire revenge: training Starkiller twice; and trying to sway Luke in ESB, for example.

    A lot of it is inference, of course, and really, that's what makes Star Wars so great. It is open to interpretation, which spurs discussion and creativity, and that makes the EU tapestry that much richer.
  23. Yondo Kuromu Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2013
    star 1
    Vader's suit is not much used for attack but more like an i-pod-carry around life support systems for the rest of his torso. Vader could've been reconstructed into a Grievous like cyborg, but this will limit his ability to use the Force completely. The Force is dependent on the living. Replacing it with cybernetic and robotics won't help. In addition, Grievous's robotics are only of match to inexperienced Jedi, but not as much to a fully fledged Knight or Master, he's easily decapitated by Obi Wan in Ep 3.
  24. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    He's easily shot by Obi-Wan in Episode III, once Obi-Wan gets a blaster.
  25. twowolves Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2013
    star 4
    I wouldn't say easily. Grievous was a match for even Jedi Masters, and only Obi-Wan, who'd mastered the lightsaber form of Ataru, was able to defeat him. That's why Yoda asked him to go: he was the only one who'd mastered that ancient form. The inference is, of course, that Vader could have been cloned and his brain put into a perfectly whole body, but Palpatine chose not to do this, limiting his connection to the Force. Why? Hmm...