Why are people so shocked he killed the Younglings?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by OnyxRose, Dec 21, 2005.

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  1. OnyxRose Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2004
    I really don't understand why people are so shocked and horrified that he killed kids. Um, he's supposed to be this ultimate baddie of the galaxy, a person completely twisted by evil with really no hope for redemption. What did you all think he was doing those twenty years, whittling wood animals? He was killing everyone who was a threat to the empire...and unfortunately that included those future little Jedis.

    Just to clarify, this isn't a "omg, feel sorry for him" post...I don't. I just don't understand how people could be so shocked. He killed all of the Jedi.
  2. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    i agree.im not sorry for him but the younglings scene is one of my favorites
  3. redsabreanakin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 5
    There's always a difference between killing adults and Children. Either in real life or in movies, it can be a very emotional thing.
  4. Sidious_T Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2004
    star 4
    I wish he suffered more personally.
  5. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    Yes, in the days before the PT we all knew Vader was a baddie and had previously
    helped wipe out the Jedi order, but until episode III I doubt few could have concieved
    of him murdering children. That is just a whole 'nother ball game altogether!
    I mean killing adult Jedi is one thing and hainus enough, but childre?? That's EVIL.

    Take a look at the prison system.
    Some dude could be on death row for killing his Mom... bad stuff.
    But the same dude could get a cell-mate that killed a kid,
    or is maybe a pedophile even... and more than likely the 'mommy killer'
    would be disgusted by his new roomie. It's quite strange really, but it happens.
    Prisoners have been killed by fellow inmates for stuff like that.
    It's like... "Yeah, I killed my Mom, but you're really sick!!"

    Anyway, my point is it was quite shocking even to me!
    And I've known that Vader killed Jedi and was evil since 1977!
    Hell, I was shocked he choked his wife, did'nt see that coming either.
    [face_peace]

  6. Lord_NoONE Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2001
    star 5
    I wasn't shocked, per se because Anakin had been instructed to do what was necessary to wipe out the Jedi Order. That included killing the younglings. Anakin's rationale was simply "Gnits make lice, so to do younglings make Jedi." Killing the younglings was a logical progression of what Anakin had become when he abandoned the Jedi Order and joined the Sith. It's an awful truth that the Sith don't care about anything or anyone but their own power. So, when Anakin entered that room with the younglings, you just knew it was curtains for them.

    :(
  7. LegoDroid Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2005
    Because it pretty much killed the story.

    This scene is so pivotal to where the whole story behind ROTC falls apart. It just isn't believable. Now you can say whay you will about the influence of the dark side of the force and how it could twist someone who was otherwise good into someone who was mostly evil (can't be pure evil because as we all know, "There is still good in him...."). I think what I struggled with when watching this film was that the whole transformation from Anakin to Vader took all of about an hour. One hour he's going to turn in Palpatine to the Jedi council, the next he's slaughtering younglings. It just didn't jive. GL worked very hard to lay out exactly why he had to do this. <Saving Padme's life> requires <Strength in the Dark Side> therefore <kill lots of Jedi>. It just isn't believable. It would have made more sense to me if Palpatine had started him off slowly. Killing a few Jedi here, a few Jedi there. Maybe over the space of a couple of months. Something like a slow slide into madness instead of a sudden reversal. Then as the Dark Side truly takes over, then start slaughtering children. Of course, GL has set in his mind that the events of Vader's transformation from Anakin to suited Vader take all of about 48 hours. Why? Why couldn't it have been stretched out? Why does this disappoint me? Because I am a huge fan of character development and plot. Here, there was almost none. Anakin did not become Vader. Anakin disappeared and Vader took his place. Certainly fits in with Obi-wan's lie to Like in ANH. Still, it doesn't make any sense. Where did this evil Vader come from? Why does he have remorse about helping to kill Mace, but an hour later, is slaughtering children? Where is the CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT? Where are the incremental steps along the way?

    If the scene could have been improved, he could have had Vader show even a hint of trepidation. Maybe something to demonstrate how there is "still good in him," right before the Dark Side reasserts itself. In other words, SHOW the transformation.

    Ok, rant over. Flame away.

    -LegoDroid
  8. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    I don't get why people are shocked either. Anakin killed women and children in AOTC, so it was obvious he already had that capability in him before he even went fully over to the dark side. The Younglings had to be killed because, kids or not, they were being trained to become a threat to the Sith. I applaud Lucas for including that scene and showing how ugly and pathetic evil truly is. The people who have a problem with it simply haven't been paying attention to the story.
  9. LavaCake Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2005
    It's not that we are surprised he did it. The shock comes from people who defend him for it.
  10. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    Exactly
  11. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    I think people are surprised because of the "way" he killed them.

    Once we saw that jedi were taken as children and trained, we all knew that children were going to be killed. It's just a big difference in having a building explode, killing everyone inside (children included) as opposed to someone walking right up on a child and killing him/her with their bare hands or lightsabers.

    (personally I think Lucas should have showed it....Star Wars would be mentioned in the same category as Grand Theft Auto and Natural Born Killers.[face_skull] [face_devil][face_skull] )


    :p



  12. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    on the spot you 2 are
  13. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    I feel that murder is murder, and the age of the victim doesn't make it any worse a crime. People always seem to become outraged over seeing children murdered. For example, all the controversy in 1931 when the Frankenstein Monster drowned a girl in the lake. Even in our somewhat desensitized society, people still can't stand to see children die. Although children may be innocent, their lives aren't any more valuable than anyone else's. There's no reason to regard Vader's actions as any more despicable than what he did in the OT.
  14. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    Murder = Murder, i agree

    BUT, murdering a grown Jedi that's fighting back is different then murdering little children that think you're there to help them.
  15. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    as you probably knew already i totally agree

    =D==D==D=

    " you have indeed grown strong my friend,your debating skills are more than complete" *bows*

    ......."when not debating about darth sidious that is :p "
  16. RolandofGilead Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2001
    star 7
    The reason that the murder of children is received with greater outrage is the very fact that children are innocent and defenseless. It is supposed to be our job as a society to protect those who rely upon us and cannot fend for themselves. It's our responsibility to protect the innocent, to defend the defenseless. It is a greater crime when innocents are made to suffer.
  17. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    " you have indeed grown strong my friend,your debating skills are more than complete"

    Thank you, Master Sithrules.

    BUT, murdering a grown Jedi that's fighting back is different then murdering little children that think you're there to help them.

    Children are less capable of defending themselves, but that doesn't make it more evil. The adult Jedi did nothing to threaten Anakin and wouldn't even need to defend themselves if it wasn't for Anakin and the Emperor. The Jedi are only a threat in Anakin's twisted mind. He believes that everyone, adults and children, need to die in order to save Padme.
  18. Sidious_T Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2004
    star 4

    considering what goes on here, HOW can that surprise you......8-}
  19. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    I never said that, i simply said there's a difference. It makes Anakin an even bigger scumbag coward.

    Nobody deserved what Anakin gave them, that's true. But again, Jedi like Obi-Wan and, seen in the hologram, Cin Drallig are grown swordsman that can fend off for themselves. The children aren't that advanced yet - they can't even see that Anakin's evil, and instead think he's there to help them. All they've ever done is deflect laserbolts, that aren't even real, from a globe - they're no match for Anakin in literally every way, shape and form.

    Both are wrong, but the difference is obvious.
  20. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    the difference is only in your mind. if you actually think that the a life's value depends on the age then we'll just have to disagree. to kill children only makes vader a bigger coward not more evil or despicable
  21. RolandofGilead Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2001
    star 7
    You apparently don't have any children of your own.
  22. R2_Did_Who Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2005
    Careful guys, this is ANAKIN we are talking about here. Say something negative, and supression of opinion there will be....
  23. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    The murder of the children is different, but not more evil. The Emperor wouldn't have wanted the children left alive. Anakin was doing what his twisted mind thought was necessary. Another Sith lord would have murdered the children if they were destroying the Jedi. The Vader we know from the OT would have done the same if he thought children were a threat.

    My point is that there's no reason to view Vader as any worse than we already knew he was. We knew he's a mass murderer and didn't try to stop a planet from being destroyed. All of these actions can be considered despicable, especially ones where a lot of people lost their lives.
  24. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    It's not their lives value's i'm talking about, it's the action.

    I agree

    I'm just saying, how can anybody not see the difference between killing padawan children and Jedi Knights and Masters - why do you even think George put that scene in there? Why do you think Yoda, Obi-Wan and Padme all specifically put the emphasis on the Younglings?
  25. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    =D=
    That's partly what I was trying to say, but can never say
    anything so brief. Kudos.
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