Why are people so shocked he killed the Younglings?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by OnyxRose, Dec 21, 2005.

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  1. anakin_luver Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2005
    star 5
    When he kills the younglings is actually one of my favourite parts...

    [image=http://desiringhayden.net/images/albums/rots/dvdcaptures/movie/normal_revengecaps577.jpg]

    Not because I am a violent, cruel person or because I think anything Anakin does it right,
    but because you can truly see Anakin's transformation happening right before yor eyes...
    and I love it.
  2. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    If people think villainy is "cool", then I don't see why they would be disappointed by Vader. The more evil a character is, the cooler he seems. This is why the Emperor is a better villain than Vader- because he's even more evil. If people perceive the slaughter of the younglings as a particularly evil act, then I would think that they would admire Vader even more.

    I don't even think that Vader's actions are any more evil than what he did in the OT. He murdered plenty of people, captured tortured Luke's friends, cut off his son's hand, turned his son over to the Emperor, threatened to make his daughter an agent of evil, and stood by as an entire planet was destroyed. Children's lives aren't any more valuable than the lives of all the other people Vader destroyed.


    in this thread you rock my friend [face_dancing]
  3. anakin_luver Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2005
    star 5
    I think Anakin is said to be more evil in ROTS because he does more evil in half and hour than Vader does in 3 movies. Sure, Vader does a good deal of horrid things, but most of them weren't showed...Plus, Anakin is just far more scarier than Vader, and I suppose that adds to the "evil" effect.

  4. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    anakin is scarier than vader ?? i totally disagree with that. vader looks far more menacing than anakin. the fact that anakin is more powerful in ROTS than in the OT doesnt mean he is scarier,everybody except for the emperor was afraid of vader and i yet have to see someone afraid of pre suit vader. not even the younglings looked that frightened to me
  5. adamlee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2004
    star 2
    I dont think anyone questions that the Emperor is more of the standard for evil.But Anakin is a more complex character.Nobody would be shocked to see the Emperor kill younglings.This scene was important to show that transformation Anakin made.Was it harsh?Yes,but without it Anakin doesn't seem as evil.
  6. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    I was actually surprised Lucas took it that far. I remember when the rumor was first spouted about, I didn't believe it. I suppose I see how it's necessary in hindsight to show how far he would go to save Padme. Imagine what it would do to his image if it wasn't included. I think some people would find it easier to feel sympathy for him.
  7. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    well, GL in fact said in the commentary that he didnt want to include the scene in the movie but he thought it was necessary to have it there to show how far he was gone to do something like that
  8. TheDimSide Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2005
    The way I see it, Anakin would have had something pretty wrong with him to begin with. His killing Mace Windu was understandable, but then going on to kill completely innocent little children in the span of a few minutes? I get the feeling Lucas was trying to hit it home a little too hard.
  9. Obi-Wan-1000 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2005
    star 4
    Darth Vader looks very scary when he is at a dark and a empty place when no one is there because he is dark and you can not see him and you can hear his breathing.[face_worried] [face_worried]
  10. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    in this thread you rock my friend [face_dancing]

    Thank you, Master Sithrules70.

    I think Anakin is said to be more evil in ROTS because he does more evil in half and hour than Vader does in 3 movies. Sure, Vader does a good deal of horrid things, but most of them weren't showed...Plus, Anakin is just far more scarier than Vader, and I suppose that adds to the "evil" effect.

    As I mentioned earlier, I don't think Anakin does more evil deeds in ROTS than he does during the OT. Just because he didn't kill children every day doesn't mean he's less evil. There weren't any children onscreen in the OT. If there were children that were viewed as a threat, I'm sure OT Vader wouldn't hesitate to kill him.

    Vader stood by as an entire planet was destroyed. A lot more people died from that explosion than from the Jedi purge, and I'm sure that many of them were children. Not seeing Vader do horrid things onscreen doesn't make his actions less deplorable. The deeds are the same, whether we see them or not. Many innocent people were killed or tormented by Vader in the OT. Leia and Han were tortured. The pain that Vader caused them isn't any less because we didn't see the torture onscreen.

    I don't see how Anakin is scarier than suited Vader. If anything, suited Vader has a more intimidating presence with the dark armor and mechanical breathing. ROTS Anakin is more powerful, but that doesn't mean he strikes as much fear into people's hearts. Young Anakin looks more like a regular person, while suited Vader looks like some kind of a beast.
  11. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    Anakin didn't kill Mace, let's be honest. I don't think in that split second he realized his actions, while pretty henious, would result in Mace's death. But helping to bring about Mace's death is far more "understandable" than him killing younglings, that's for sure.
  12. THEFORCEROCKS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2004
    star 4
    He knows the Jedi will never take him back and he knows that Padme will never accept it if she found out what really happened. Worse, Anakin starts deluding himself into thinking it's the right thing to do.


    Well then why is he shocked on mustafar when padme basically says its over? However i wasnt shocked because hes killed before and I knew he would kill again. he didnt get the name scourge of the jedi for nothing
  13. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    but thats what i mean, he is much scarier in the suit despite being weaker



    Thank you, Master Sithrules70.



    you are welcome my young aprenttice


    Young Anakin looks more like a regular person, while suited Vader looks like some kind of a beast.


    on the spot. despite being considerably weaker the guy is 6.7" , 300 pounds, has a black armor, mechanical breathing and the physical strenght of a wookie, of course he is scarier.
  14. adamlee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2004
    star 2
    In regards to the question of why he is shocked that Padme says it's over,it's simple.Just because you know something will end doesn't mean you are prepared to face it.I had a girlfriend who broke up with me,and I knew she was going to,but I didn't want to accept it when she did.
    Yeah the younglings death makes him less sympathetic,and sympathy for Anakin is what Lucas said we would all feel when the saga was ended. But I still feel sorry for him.You can feel sympathy for a person's situation and yet not agree with his choices.I'm sure even Anakin feels bad about what he did,which explains him crying on Mustafar,another awesome scene.
  15. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    The kids aren't innocent to him. They're the next generation of Jedi who will try and stop him. He cannot let any Jedi live. Including the Younglings. Note that because two Younglings (Luke & Leia) survived they came back to destroy the Empire. This is exactly what Palpatine didn't want to have happen.

    Vader: "He is just a boy. Obi-wan can no longer help him."

    Palpatine: "He could destroy us."

    And no, he didn't revel in having to kill the Jedi. But he did with the Separatist Council.
  16. FloppyMaN Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2005
    star 4
    I am not, I think it was part of his transition to the dark side, and something of that magnitude was needed.
  17. adamlee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2004
    star 2
    I think it is interesting that Vader dismisses Luke as "just a boy" but he thinks 5 year olds are threats to the Empire.And yes I understand he was trying to prevent the Emperor from killing Luke by making him look weak.It is just ironic.There are so many cool parallels in the saga.love it
  18. Masterkyp44 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2002
    star 3
    He does more evil deeds in ep3 then all of OT?

    I dunno the opening sequence we see of darth vadar in ANH he lifts Captain Antilles up and crushes his throat...pretty evil.

    I dunno sometimes when I watch the younglings scene I just see anakin following orders..something the emperor MADE him do...maybe if he had the decision to make himself he wouldnt have done it. LIke I said sometimes watching that scene I feel that way. I dont know why even after slaughtering all those peeps I still feel bad for anakin....everything he culda had if he stayed good I suppose I dunno why. --shrug--
  19. THEFORCEROCKS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2004
    star 4
    I'm sure even Anakin feels bad about what he did,which explains him crying on Mustafar,another awesome scene.

    Yeah but its too late for tears the relationship is over.
  20. darth_frared Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2005
    star 5
    wouldn't you think he only tries to divert sid's attention away from luke? he dismisses him because he doesn't want sid to see him as a threat?
  21. Darth-Mule Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2002
    star 4
    I think the scene was completely mis-handled. Either in the editing room or in the script. They should have shown Anakin cutting down some adult Jedi before the youngling scene. As it is, you see him marching into the temple with his clones, and the next time you see him it's the youngling scene - it gives the impression that all he really did was show up and kill a few kids. Sure, you see later that he did fight with some jedi, but it's later in the film for only a few seconds and via a holograph.

    But what can you do? It's done now.
  22. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    I think seeing Anakin killing more people would be... overkill. The youngling scene was very brief on purpose. That combined with the march into the Temple was all we needed to understand what was going on. No need to dwell. Anakin didn't personally kill all the adults either, the Clonetroopers dispatched the vast majority.
  23. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    The only adults that he killed were Cin Drallig and Shaak Ti. The video game has him kill Jocosta Nu. But mostly the Temple was filled with the Younglings and Padawans who didn't have a Master yet. There weren't that many older Padawans, Knights and Masters there. They were either on assignment or already dead.
  24. adamlee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2004
    star 2
    I'm sorry,don't remember who wrote it, but yes I get that Vader was trying to distract the Emperor in ESB. He didn't want Luke to be taken away from him. I just think there is some irony in the fact that he will kill other children because they will be a threat in the future.
    In reference to the statement "it is too late for tears,the relationship is over," I think that in Anakin's mind it is over.He is a man who is torn up inside.And I felt sympathy for him as a person. But in reality,I don't think it was too late for him to turn back. If Anakin had put down his pride and admitted he was wrong to either Padme or Obi Wan I bet they would have forgiven him.It seemed like Obi Wan was looking for a way to get him to come to his senses. But that's the thing.Anakin,even though he KNOWS he is in the wrong,will stop at nothing to get what he wants.
    And I don't think for a second that Anakin wanted to kill the younglings. I also think he kills more adults than just Shaak Ti and Cin Drallig. I just don't buy that Anakin would kill two adults and then some children. I imagine he went throughout the whole temple laying his wrath upon the Jedi.
  25. Dezdmona Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2005
    star 4
    Anakin did have something pretty wrong to begin with.

    GL laid the groundwork in TPM ~ the issues revolve around compassion and greed, of not being able to let go.

    ANAKIN: I want to stay with you. I don't want things to change.

    He's the evil within us.

    What is it in the human brain that gives us the capacity to be as evil as human beings have been in the past and are right now? ~ George Lucas
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