Why are people so shocked he killed the Younglings?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by OnyxRose, Dec 21, 2005.

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  1. adamlee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2004
    star 2
    well said Dezdmona.
    In every human lies the ability to do great good or great evil.And the road we take is influenced by many variables.(environment,friends,etc.) Anakin clearly had the weight of the world on his back.Anhd I think anyone in his shows would have been confused.I am not saying they would have killed children.But the Jedi,to me, seemed very confused how to handle his life.In the novel, he says "I am the chosen one?Chosen for what?" When we are upset about life,who do we go to, the person who tells us no all the time or the person who seems to understand and sympathize with our plight?It is clear that Palpatine always was "there to support Anakin." Of course this was all a facade.But to Anakin it seemed like a genuine friendship.
    Sadly, Anakin fell under the influence.He wanted absolute power.And absolute power,of course,corrupts absolutely.
  2. darth_frared Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2005
    star 5
    i agree there is an irony there.
    i have always been wishing for a moment that he lets go of his pride and just admits that he was wrong. and i think at this point there was too much that just hung in the air and remained unresolved and in reality of course you'd wish someone would just stop the insanity of it, but for the story would have thought it cheap if they (padme and obi-wan) just said, okay then, you are forgiven etc.
    no, he didn't mean to kill the younglings. of course not. but he still does, fact. so i'm thinking he does it because he feels he has no choice and i continually have the feeling that he is convinced he has no choice due to some insane level of obedience.
  3. adamlee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2004
    star 2
    darth frared, I agree with you that Anakin has some strange form of obedience to Sidious.Anakin hates the idea of change.The irony is that he doesn't think he can change the awful things that he does.
    I think Anakin wants to change,as the saga goes on.In ROTJ specifically you can sense that he wants to escape his role.But he hates himself.I mean,think about it.He has carried the weight of his mistakes for twenty years.The person he was is probably buried so deep in his soul that he does think he is dead.
    I don't necessarily think all would be forgiven if Anakin had admitted he was wrong.But I think that these people loved him enough to get him the help he desperately needed.That's in my opinion what love is,to selflessly give for the good of others.Padme,even after hearing that he had killed the younglings,asked him to go away with her.But Anakin was past that.Power is what drove him at that point.
  4. darth_frared Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2005
    star 5
    it's true he doesn't think he can change these things. i'm always wondering why he just never considers not doing it.

    and the funny thing is that the character is an agent of change in the story but fears changing anything himself. another irony for you. i would think he wants to get out of the sith job by the OT. i would venture to guess he doesn't even want it in ROTS, it's just means to an end. albeit the wrongest. but hey, we all make mistakes! ;) in the end his reluctance to change things slowly and non-violently (say, the marriage rule or something) causes the biggest problems.

    i agree with your idea of love but i'm also thinking he is beyond seeing what padme wants from him. he's pretty much lost his mind so there isn't much point listening and considering. in a less charged situation i see much potential for everyone to calm down but too much has happened with these guys, they cannot just go back and say, right. okay. he needs help but he will not admit it. and they don't know what they are supposed to give. i mean, look at obi-wan, the guy is unable to let out his emotions until the very end.
  5. adamlee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2004
    star 2
    Obi Wan tries to reason with him right befor the fight. "Anakin my allegiance is to the republic,to democracy!" Anakin was just out of his mind.I assume the killing of the younglings was probably very damaging to his psyche.You can see he is clearly not okay with it.
  6. darth_frared Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2005
    star 5
    yes, but keep in mind that the reasoning obi-wan employs just won't work in this situation. he doesn't ask a single question. he just states things.
    i'm always wondering if the jedicide was part of him becoming a sith or sheer necessity.
  7. adamlee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2004
    star 2
    well every great society falls eventually.I see what you mean.Obi Wan doesn't ask him to listen.I thought the dialogue should have been beefed up.Wasn't it rumored that the dialogue would cut deeper than swords?Hardly.I wanted Obi Wan to be talking to him more.It had a chance to be more somber.
  8. Mo_Skywalker Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2005
    To the original question -

    People are so shocked he killed the younglings because this is the pinnacle of evil. There aren't really many things you can do that are more evil than that; in fact, I can't really think of any. And unlike Alderaan, it's right there, front and center, for us to see for ourselves.

    This is not to say that childrens' lives are more valuable than anyone elses - that's not the point. Anyone who is a parent understands what I mean. Those who argue that killing children isn't more evil than killing anyone else aren't parents.
  9. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    I don't think it matters if we see the younglings being killed or Alderran being destroyed. The action is the same and is not more or less evil, whether we see it or not. Murder is always the worst crime, no matter who is killed. The age of the victims doesn't make the crime any worse. No one deserves to be unjustly slaughtered.
  10. Mo_Skywalker Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2005
    No, seeing it doesn't make it more evil, but it DOES create a more evil image in the viewer's mind, which I assume is what GL was going for. I know it worked on me.
  11. adamlee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2004
    star 2
    I see what farrellg means.Murder is murder.But it is the innocence of a child,as stated every which way in this thread already,that makes it shocking.You realize Anakin will turn evil,but you just don't know how far he will go.
  12. thechozn1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2005
    star 4
    It was simply there to show how far he had fallen. You may consider all life to be equal but most people are going to feel more shock over a defenseless child getting killed. Especially when it's simply for selfish purposes.

    I forget what I saw this on, but some tv show I was watching one time was showing the reaction to various forms of violence. Guess which one got the most reaction? The one where a guy shot a dog [face_thinking]

    As a society we just don't like defenseless people or things being harmed, which I believe is a good thing btw.
  13. voodoopuuduu Classic Trilogy Trivia Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2004
    star 5
    I forget what I saw this on, but some tv show I was watching one time was showing the reaction to various forms of violence. Guess which one got the most reaction? The one where a guy shot a dog

    Good thing Lucas didnt follow that show, Anakin would have been killing puppies. :p
  14. Ceethreepio Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2003
    star 5
    Exactly and Palpatine was right about it being Civil War with out end.
  15. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    Lucas did say that he wanted the kids to show the end of innocence. Yes, murder is the same no matter what. But Lucas needed to drive home how far Anakin will go to keep his attachments. People wanted Vader to kill people, well, they got with both barrels.

    Be careful for what you wish for.
  16. Eire Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2005
    star 1
    Wyh? Becose morder of the child is the worst thing with anyone can do. This childrens trusted him, they looked for the security,and they found death
  17. adamlee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2004
    star 2
    Darth Sinister is right.We wanted Vader to be evil,we got it.And it showed how far Anakin will go to get what he wants.Nothing will stand in his way.
  18. Ceethreepio Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2003
    star 5
    Its kinda the same reason Anakin looked to Palpatine if you look at it from a certain POV
  19. Eire Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2005
    star 1
  20. Eire Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2005
    star 1

    Yes, but it isn't so clear. And kill Anakin weren't teh purpurose of Sidosus at all
  21. yankee8255 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 6
    Because children are relatively innocent and helpless, which is why most, if not all societies, afford them extra protection. Anakin killing them makes it far harder for people, me included, to believe he could be redeemed. He has crossed a line form which there is no turning back.
  22. Darth_Buddy_Lee Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2004
    star 1
    I for one don't think he is ever truly redeemed. Yes he does kill the emperor and bring balance to the force and save his son by sacrificing himself, but this one act does not serve as redemption for all of the atrocities that he committed. Yes he probably knew he would die when he made the decision, but it was still a slightly selfish decision in that he couldn't see his own son die, if it were any other Jedi, he would have just watched them die.

    In the ROTJ novelization (I believe, although this could be from somewhere else), Yoda is the one that makes it possible for Anakin to become a ghost at the end and see his son. I don't believe this was done due to Anakin being redeemed, but was done for Luke. Luke deserved to see his father as a Jedi. And then Anakin can drift back into the madenning abyss that all Sith are destined for.
  23. yankee8255 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 6
    Agreed with you until the last line.
  24. Darth_Buddy_Lee Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2004
    star 1
  25. yankee8255 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 6
    I guess the distinction is whether he should na dwhether he will. I think we both agree thatthe answer to the first quesiton is no. But the clear implication of ROTJ is that he will.
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