Why are the mods black with a line through?

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Stackpole_The_Hobbit, Feb 26, 2004.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. Cheri Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2000
    star 4
    Look, if this guy is so hard up for cash that he has to demote mods because they won't give out their info, he can have my damn email address and cell phone number. Sell away. I don't care. Use the profits to fight any lawsuit you might face. One stipulation: You apologize and bring back the mods you demoted.

    And yes, I know this isn't going to happen.
  2. BobTheGoon Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2000
    star 6
    but mac, that would make too much sense.
  3. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    Josh's silence speaks more loudly than any post by him could, with this level of wreckage sought by his co-owner.
  4. Liz Skywalker Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2000
    star 6
    So, how exactly is this new JC rocking hard? [face_plain]
  5. darth_paul Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2000
    star 5
    If liability really is an issue, then there needs to be one demand for personal info. It needs to be collected not just from the mods, but from every member of this site. It's ridiculous to ask volunteer moderators to shoulder any sort of legal burden; that should fall either on the people making money from the site or on each poster individually.

    If it's all about selling information.... That's disgusting.

    -Paul
  6. TripleB Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 4
    Royal Guard, are we talkinga bout Joshua Griffin here?
  7. Cheri Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2000
    star 4
    No, Philip Wise. Although, Josh hasn't made his position known to my knowledge.
  8. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    That's who we're talking about. We don't know why we haven't heard from Josh yet, but the sense I got from his one post in the MS thread was he wanted to smooth over the feathers ruffled by Philip as much as possible. Since Josh actually posts here, it makes sense he would be more in the touch with the boards.

    Apparently it didn't work. :(

    My understanding is Philip is majority owner now, so Josh doesn't really have control over his actions.

    So, how exactly is this new JC rocking hard?

    I don't know. I thought the old one was pretty good for all its faults, and it's a good rule of thumb not to fix things that aren't broken.
  9. BobTheGoon Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2000
    star 6
    no, Philip Wise.

    There really needs to be a summary thread stickied in comms.

    DLM, wanna write one up? You seem to be one of the only few left in charge around here.

    Or has no one made any Alexander Haig jokes yet?
  10. Salty Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 1998
    star 5
    I'm sad that people still use UBB.
  11. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    No, I'm just one of the only ones who's dumb enough and distraught enough to still be awake at this hour. :(

    I think GandyRaven's summary was pretty good, though it's been buried in the thread by now.
  12. Qui Gon Jim23 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    I think the reason that most of you don't get this is that you're looking at it from the perspective of users, or at most owners of small sites with a tight community (I'm not lumping everyone in, but I know it's true for most). You need to start looking at this through the eyes of an owner of one of the largest fansites on the web -- especially if you aspire to do something like it. Those of you that think Philip is trying to get scapegoats for an ongoing lawsuit I won't even address, as you're obviously too far gone. But the rest of you, a site this size can have serious legal liability issues. It's like the difference in voluteering for to work the local golf tournament and voluteering to work the Masters. One doesn't require much of you, the other requires a full disclosure of personal information.

    I'm honestly surprised that this site has gone this long without gathering such information, given it's size and popularity. These are growing pains, and a site with this size membership has a big fat bullseye painted on it. Everything on a high profile site like this has to be done above board from a legal standpoint, as I'm having to quickly learn thanks to a contract our company has worked on recently.

    Sure, calling mods paranoid was probably not a good way to foster goodwill, but the reasoning behind the request was sound.
  13. Jedi_BMack Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 4
    all the info i'm posting here is coming from publically accessible sites or public postings on the boards. so don't flame me for hacking anything.

    www.theforce.net is registered under TF.N LLC, with an address i will call AddrA. It's listed in WHOis info, public domain.

    Also listed under AddrA: www.newwookiee.com. This domain is listed on a name server, www.wise-advice.com.

    The following domains are also listed on the www.wise-advice.com name server:
    • www.toshistation.com
    • www.rebelscum.com
    • www.collectinghq.net
    • www.r2d2central.com
    The first three of those addresses are registered to a contact at AddrB. www.r2d2central.com is currently listed as expired and consequently does not list an address.

    i checked out www.collectinghq.net. they have affiliate sites listed. among others listed are:
    • www.toshistation.com
    • www.rebelscum.com
    • www.r2d2central.com


    now reading the terms of use on www.collectinghq.com item #4:
    Any communication or material you transmit to the Site by electronic mail or otherwise, including any data, questions, comments, suggestions, or the like is, and will be treated as, non-confidential and non-proprietary. Anything you transmit or post may be used by CHQ or its affiliates for any purpose, including but not limited to reproduction, disclosure, transmission, publication, broadcast, and posting. Furthermore, CHQ is free to use any ideas, concepts, know-how, or techniques contained in any communication you send to the Site for any purpose whatsoever, including but not limited to developing, manufacturing, and marketing products using such information.


    now reading the Privacy Policy at www.collectinghq.com
    CHQ gathers two types of information about users:
    ? Information that users provide through optional, voluntary submissions. These are voluntary submissions to receive our electronic newsletters, to participate in our message boards or forums, to email a friend, registration for collection tracking and from participation in polls and surveys:
    ? Information CHQ gathers through aggregated tracking information derived mainly by tallying page views throughout our sites. This information allows us to better tailor our content to readers' needs and to help our advertisers and sponsors better understand the demographics of our audience. Because CHQ derives its revenue mainly from sponsorships and advertising, providing such aggregated demographic data is essential to keeping our service free or low cost to users. Under no circumstances does CHQ divulge any information about an individual user to a third party without permission.


    so, these multiple sites are all tied together as affiliates of another website that claims to be collecting information as a source for marketing information. additionally, all these websites are under the registration of two addresses and through the assumed name-server of the owner of TF.N. Now, our mods are being asked to give personal information or be relieved of their responsibilities to TF.N?

    This sounds like nothing more than a way to gather demographic information without disclosing to those volunteering, albeit under duress, what that information will be used for.

    Someone more knowledgeable please figure out a way to explain this evidence of a serious breach of business ethics.

    -b-
  14. BobTheGoon Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2000
    star 6
    Right, so instead of 10,000 users coming in here over the next few days and doing the equivalent of "can someone please PM me a link" after a major 3SA spoiler leak why not have someone make a sticky with the bullet points provided by Raven?

    BMACK:
    CollectingHQ.com is about to become very important re: TF.N
  15. Doright Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 1999
    star 5
    Are you feeling threatened by my PMs


    No just annoyed. If You have something to say. Say it here. Or are you afraid you'll be banned for calling me an "idiot" in public? I wonder.



    look I am done here. I made my points. I don't agree with most of you here. That is clear and it's not going to change. There is too big a bandwagon for anyone to change anyones mind.

    If this site means as much to you mods as you say it will then letting this guy have your name on file shouldn't keep you from that. I have a higher respect for those mods here who took that course of action even if they were unsure of it to begin with. That tells me they care more for the boards than their colors. That says a lot and I hope they continue to be mods here.

    But protesting will get you no where. Try and work it out with the owners. Mac-nut is correct there are better ways to solve this. If the owner isn't open to that then I guess there really isn't anything you can do about it.

    Anyway I don't want to threaten anyone with my opinions anymore so I am moving on.


    Good day to you all and God bless.

  16. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    Sure, Bob, I can do that. Posting now.

    I'll probably be going to bed soon, so I'm debating whether to leave this thread open or lock it until the next mod comes along to watch it. Think it'll stay civil if it goes unmoderated for a while?
  17. Lord Bane Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 26, 1999
    star 5
    CollectingHQ is running Rebelscum and will soon (before Summer) be running TFn and its subsidiary sites (JC and FF related, plus the small things like the Unofficial NJO Page).

    It'll stay civil. Let it be. :D
  18. Jedi_Hood Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 10, 2000
    star 6
  19. droideka27 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2002
    star 7
    No just annoyed. If You have something to say. Say it here. Or are you afraid you'll be banned for calling me an "idiot" in public? I wonder.

    I am. I gave you an option of talking privately first then switched to here. And, no, I am not afraid. SOme of the things you are saying ARE idiotic, because you're comparing fan force stuff to JC mods, comparign your life to the life of people with TOTALLY different life situation than you.

    I hardly think because the mods were demoted means they do not care.

    But i am sure they appreciate you assuming that [/sarcasm]

    Good day to you all and God bless.

    Good night!
  20. Krash RSA Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2000
    star 5
    If the owner isn't open to that then I guess there really isn't anything you can do about it.
    I have had this conversation...I believe the words used were "no comprimises"

    I resigned as RSA...rather then be stripped of it for the reaons BMack cited (after some careful research of public information)
  21. Cheri Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2000
    star 4
    nm. I hope everyone can be civil.
  22. Lord Bane Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 26, 1999
    star 5
  23. Syntax Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2001
    star 5
    Looking around and reading the 30-odd pages of this thread that got added since I last checked, I'm not at all surprised at to what happened.

    While I support the Mods, I'm still not surprised that things went down as they did. I'll be honest and say I don't LIKE what happened, but beyond that, there isn't much more for me to say.

    I'm almost positive that I'll take flak for sharing this opinion, but I'm going to share it anyway, simply because I can (...and because if anyone flames me for my personal opinion, it's against the TOS, no?).

    I think some people are overreacting just a little bit.

    I understand that this is a big change.
    I understand that the Mods/Admins who got aced put forth a lot of effort into this forum over the span of weeks, months, and years doing what is ultimately a "thankless" volunteer job. Being a Mod takes time and effort, and reflects on your character as a person by being able to handle the responsibilities that are associated with being a Mod. Believe it or not, but I Moderated 7 messageboards for 2 years at one point (and I got aced in a situation fairly similar to this one), and I am currently Moderating another large and popular forum single-handedly, and have done so for a little over a year now.
    I understand that there's a large sense of community here. People make a lot of friends, speak their minds, meet new people, talk about topics, share common interests, and generally have a good time.
    I understand that the JC has been around for a long time, and that there's the feeling that all of its users (Mods and general forumgoers alike) feel that something special has been made here since the board's inception.

    But at the end of the day, it's still an unofficial Internet messageboard about a fictional science fiction universe that's 25 years old.

    Like I said, I don't like this situation, nor do I like the decisions that were made. However, I read posts in this thread, and I see people actually stating that they're actually in tears, or wanting to take some sort of physical action for this, or that they're angrier than they've ever been over anything else in their whole life.
    Bottom line for me is, it all seems a little bit extreme. I think some people need to calm down and think about what's happened, and then what to do next. Not fly off the handle and simply make posts saying "I'm angry! This sucks! Grr! Mods, I support you, and Philip Wise should die!".

    Seriously, this isn't the end of the world. It's a change. We don't LIKE the change, and it shouldn't have happened (at least not like this) but it DID happen, and that's the bottom line. No one has died over this, nor has anyone lost a revenue-producing job, nor has anyone lost any friends or family members. To my knowledge, no one's been banned, and the boards haven't been shut down. No one has "vanished" or anything like that, nor has anyone said "I'm leaving the boards and never coming back, and none of you will ever be able to contact me again". People have been demoted and not given VIP colors, and while that's disrespectful, bitching about it sure isn't going to change anything at this point, is it?

    I just think that some people are overreacting just a little bit.

    That's just my two credits on the subject.
  24. Bria Manager Emeritus, -MNFF Council

    Member Since:
    May 15, 1999
    star 7
    Eh, I should've headed to bed at least two hours ago. I like boards however, and this past week has really saddened me. But I still hope Josh will respond as he didn't seem as dismissive.

    EDIT: Sorry to see you go, Krash. I'm sure you and your FF will make it through though. :)
  25. TripleB Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 4
    How many of us besides myself are Premium IGN members? I heard somewhere that IGN has ownership of these boards. Is that true? Because if it is, those of us with Premium membership can threaten to cancel our subscriptions (and thus hurt the people behind this action where it hurts the most, in the Profit Margin) if we are not given a satisfactory answer.

    CONTACT INFORMATION FOR IGN.COM

    San Francisco Headquarters
    8000 Marina Boulevard
    2nd Floor
    Brisbane, CA 94005
    Phone: 415.508.2000
    Fax: 415.508.2001

    New York Sales Office
    29 West 34th Street
    11th Floor
    New York, NY 10001
    Phone: 212.601.2200
    Fax: 212.725.4630

    Los Angeles Sales Office
    1100 Glendon Avenue, 17th Floor
    Los Angeles, CA 90024
    Phone: 310.689.7447
    Fax: 310.689.7449

    Los Angeles Editorial Office
    1960 E. Grand Ave, Suite 500
    El Segundo, CA 90245
    Phone: 310.414.5411
    Fax: 310.414.5435
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