Why are the Noghri so weak?

I was looking at the D6 system last night for some of the info on the Noghri and realized just how strong they were when they start out.
Why are they so pitiful in the D20 system?

Don't have the info for them in the WEG d6 version, what are they? I'll look that over tonight though, and post then.

Maj-Odo Taji

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Humans, in D6, start with 12D in Attributes, +6D for being characters. Noghri, according to my dusty old Thrawn books, start with....
16D!!!!!!

If you're saying Noghri are weak then the WotC ones must be weak. No way in hell a character Noghri is weak dude. No way!!!!

E_S

d20 Noghri have their advantages and disadvantages. No different than all other races, in my opinion. I am no reader of the non-movie novels, so I can't comment too heavily on them, but they look balanced to me.

And 16d compared to the normal 12d is filthy.

Regards,
Maj-Odo Taji

I'm saying they are weak in D20 and kick @$$ in D6.
I think they should have a few more advantages in D20 than they do now.

Like what? And exactly what role did they play in the novels? All I know is that they were pawns of Vader, I think.

Regards,
Maj-Odo Taji

They were Vader's personal assassins. I think that the d20 stats for them are fine, they operated with quickness and stealth, not brute force. The species traits reflect this. Remember that the stats for the commoner are meant to represent the average citizen, not adventures.

I'm talking about the species traits, as if you were gonna play as one. Where's the Noghri Martial Arts? Sure, they can get it as part of a Prestige Class but it really isn't that impressive, nothing like it comes of in the books. And they are taught suppossed to be taught this at an early age. So unless you are starting with a character that is 5 he should already know this.

If it is a PC you can always take Martial Arts as your starting feat. Did all Noghri know martial arts?

Unless Vader had a mandate that EVERY Noghri were taught MA, I'd say Fingorfin hit the nail on the head. Take MA as your character gen feat. If that doesn't work, add it in and drop an attribute point, in my opinion.

Regards,
Maj-Odo Taji

Look at the Noghri bodyguard template in NJO SB, they're fine. They're balanced.
Noghri are silent assassin aliens, loyal to the Skywalkers. They pop up in the Thrawn trilogy, Star Wars: Rebellion for PC and in the NJO, serving Leia as bodyguards.

E_S

And yes, 16D is filthy! Like Star Dragons. Phwoar!

I could be wrong, but I did think it was all of them that were taught from a very young age.

Where did you read that? It could be that all the ones selected for that duty were trained. It seems a bit excessive to spend so many resources training an entire species to do job that could easily be accomplished by a few hundred.

Or it could be part of their culture.

If it is accurate that ALL Noghri have MA, I'd let them have MA as a starting feat, but drop an attribute point. Just my two Republic credits though.

Regards,
Maj-Odo Taji

Noghri are highly skilled hunters and as part of their culture are trained in martial arts from a young age.

I believe that the Noghri are an NPC species in D6 and not really meant as players. As a basic Noghri is a match for most PCs.
The WOTC version is to balance them and make them more available as PCs(IMHO).

The Forgotten Realms book has a way round the powerful species problem charge any player wanting to be one levels to balance them with other players species. The Noghri in D6 are well powerful compared to D20. A new conversion of the Noghri from D6 to D20 could be worth 3 levels easy.
Stats vary from
Str: 13-22
Dex: 12-22
Con: 13-22
Int: 8-16
Wis: 10-17
Chr: 11-18

Faster movement can be more than 50% faster than an average human (10) Noghri (11-18)
Martial arts dam +1D+2
Claws dam +1D
Bite dam +2D
Stealth +2D (+3 in WotC)
Enhanced Senses +2D (+3 in WotC)

I think it is just another way of balancing them out. By the way I like them I thought they were cool when I read the books. The stats just put them out of players hands, by our GM anyway.

Noghri, according to the Heir to the Empire trilogy, are dexterous, wise, intelligent, and strong. Constitutions are average (or maybe a little less in the RPG), though perhaps the Charisma would take a hit, since they are rather gruff.

You have to use the prestige class or a hero class (prestige recommended) if you want them strong. Remember, we're talking strong for a hero here. Even if the kids are taught at a young age, they might not even be qualified for the Martial Arts feat. I mean, some kid who took karate for a couple years can't come up and disarm a green beret! You play your feats right and take the Noghri bodyguard prestige class and you can kick some major booty if you know what you're doing

I play a Nogrhri character in my current game. Its not a matter of stats with strength, its a matter of how you use what you have. My noghri is armed with only 2 vibroblades and a holdout blaster. But I've killed countless enemies just by using my blades. I've killed at least a dozen peple by throwing my blade across the room and impaling them through the head. Or running up behind them and cutting their throats. Noghri aren't really built for strength their built for quick, silent, assassination-style kills. I've never needed that much strength. I could single handedly take down any member of my group with my high DEX and INT.

Actually, for my game, I gave a Noghri being played as a hero MA free. I think the D20 stats are fine. Noghri are strong (for being a small size, they take no strength penalty like most small beings), Dextirous (+2 Dex), but gruff and kinda ugly (-4 Cha). They get a +4 bonus on hide, have keen smell (identify someone up to 10 m away with a DC10 Wis check)
My brother is using a Noghri soldier, armed with 2 dirks (1d4+1+Str) and 6 throwing knifes (1d4+str). He carries a bottle of paralitic poison and some Contact poison.
Noghri aren't in your face fighters. They're commandos. I would give them as a species skill Deadly strike because they take their time and strike hard and fast.

My char was a lvl 10 elite soldier Noghri when he was killed in battle with a Sith Lord. Without a doubt, him and the Wookie in the group were the powerhouses of the party. I played him much like a Klingon, so he saw a lot of battle action and he kicked serious buttocks.

He was only armed with a custom weapon the "Vader's Wrath" a Force pike/blaster combo that dealt 5d8 of damage. . .pretty decent.

Noghris are good tough characters and a heck of a lot of fun to rpg. Specially if you talk like Noghris (in whispers, with pronounced "sss" sounds)