PT Why Are The PT Films criticized? (catch-all thread)

OP asks why the PT films are criticized, people answer and explain the reasons, PT fans feel "attacked" because something they like is criticized, and why should anyone be surprised? Look at the title of this thread. Look at the intent of the OP in the initial post. This is a place for the critiques to be laid out plainly. It doesn't have to be an argument this time. That happens enough in enough other threads on any particular salient point or element of the films.

There are nitpicks (I have nitpicks with all 7 films if I really wanted to get into it), and then there are massive structural/enjoyment issues.

For those who mostly want spectacle, choreography and adventure, the PT might suit them fine. For those like myself who want interesting, emotionally identifiable characters, (which allows me to forgive many nitpicks), evocative performances, and a plot arc that makes general sense, the PT failed to deliver for many of us. Either I care about the characters and can enjoy the ride more, or I can't care about the characters (due to any number of reasons from film to film, Star Wars or otherwise) and all the other flaws of the whatever movie I'm watching become impossible to ignore. This is why far too many current blockbuster films are awful in my eyes, or avoided altogether (Independence Day Resurgence, Pixels, etc). Interesting visuals and technical acumen couldn't save BvS, Jurassic World or the Hobbit films from being forgettable popcorn train wrecks. But hey, popcorn sells. Box Office is proof enough of that (just not proof of quality; *flips the bird at Transformers*).

You don't need to justify your love of the prequels. What you enjoy is entirely subjective. Heck maybe there's someone out there that loves all the Adam Sandler films. I'd never trust his judgment or opinion when determining if I myself might go see a film, but if he's enjoying himself, no harm to me!

 

This is over doing it.

No one escapes...

The point is, It gets irritating when you see a few threads derailed or the same topics over and over again when it's the exact arguments and no change. Sure, you can criticize all you want.

The other issue that you say that it doesn't have to be an argument. Which it does. This thread is made for it and was asked for it to be followed with arguments that go no where.

PT fans aren't "attacked" but it's an annoyance to see threads fall into the same pit as many other threads that weren't even made for arguments. It's an endless rhyme that Lucas told us about, but no one listened to...


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You mean, like the "Point of View - George Lucas was right not to listen to the embittered fans" thread, for which I asked a merciful death from the mods after being heavily derailed...

 

If that's what you meant, that phrasing doesn't match up with the context of the conversation. I'm sorry for my misunderstanding. But you yourself did imply a factual basis of it being bad by making a comparison between the prequels as being on the opposite side of the spectrum of Breaking Bad, a widely known well written show. Though I will still say that the things some people wanted would have been unrealistic character-wise.

Considering you make no such comment to anyone else and the mocking nature of it, your statement can openly be seen as disingenuous and an attempt to make fun of my faith in God and even after I ask you stop, you continue to type it in a mocking way, so the only conclusion I can come to is that that is what you want to do, in order to create a problem and maybe even be a troll. Again, I ask, please stop. It's not necessary. And I would very much appreciate it. Have a very great day!

God bless you all!

 

I know other people will have said the same, but I struggle with that school of thought. There are plenty of great films that feature awkward relationships. Off the top of my head, Napoleon Dynamite features awkward characters, but I never sat there thinking "this is terribly written". Indeed, awkwardness has been a key feature of a whole school of comedy from Larry Sanders, through the Office, Parks and Rec... but it's awkwardness at the situation, not at the making of the film itself.

 

I made my opinions known, and referred to them as such. Not sure how to fix perceptions of opinion stated as fact, or the internet's general tone of discourse would level up!

On the matter of religious discourse (againnnn), I would much rather not have to see it shoved into every reply. I can't and won't force you to do anything, and I'm not a mod, but I don't come here to have anyone constantly referencing their Sky God, unless on threads and topics specifically regarding it. Until then, I think my statement that you quoted above explains my position well enough. I also request that you stop evangelizing, as it is not necessary. If the reasons are for your own personal conduct as you stated earlier, then surely it can be kept to yourself? By adding it to every message, it becomes less about your faith and more about your need to evangelize, and by implying that I am trolling and refusing to accept my reasons given, it encroaches on hypocrisy. I'll remind you that in a particular bronze age holy text, Jesus admonished the Pharisees for praying in public and making a show of it!

So that leaves us at an impasse. Mutual acceptance of each other's religious agenda and well-wishing, or acknowledging that maybe non-related threads may not be the best place for such evangelism? However you wish to proceed, please try to understand my position as well and stop referring to me as a troll.

I've stated my case twice now, and offered mutual terms. Either we make room for multiple religious views, or we keep them out of topics that have nothing to do with it. I would hope that seems fair. Now let us stop derailing this thread, please, and get back to the topic at hand! Can I get a Ramen?

In hindsight, having "embittered fans" in the title was probably problematic to begin with. There is something to be said about a creator ignoring critics and fans (hating or gushing) so that s/he can make what they want to make, so it's a good point to offer up, but I could see that it had derailed long before I clicked on it to add my 2 cents. In the end, George had every right to make the movies he wanted to make. Once someone puts a creation out there, however, it is opened to the public to debate and critics to review. People had every right to take issue with the result, too. The internet's platform, having just hit a sort of massive global exposure (as computers became more affordable in more households around those years), simply amplified the results. Social media was in its infancy when TPM came out.

Prequel haters need to get used to the fact that there are people who love these movies, and Prequel lovers need to get used to the fact that there are people who hate these movies. Same goes for the Sequel trilogy. Thankfully, there appear to be threads set aside here for Prequel fans to express their appreciation and love for the movies, though it is highly unrealistic and unnecessary that the entire PT section of the boards (or CT, or ST) should be immune from dissenting opinions and critiques of said films. I realized most aren't asking for that, but I've seen a few people lament that it can't just be a safe space where an existing confirmation bias bubble can exist.

Hopefully we'll all take comfort that, by and large, these boards are a place to celebrate all aspects of the Star Wars franchise. My personal favorite corner of fandom is steeped deeply in the novels, comics and video games (even if I'm woefully behind in my reading of the New Canon stuff). Meanwhile, if you want to put up an opinion, and don't want anyone to disagree with you, then start a blog and disable its comments section. Forums by their nature are about people communicating with each other, and that does include debate. Even on a thread titled "why are the PT films criticized" there are posts here stating what people loved about the PT.

tl;dr: Forums are filled with people. Not all of those people will agree. Star Wars rocks!

 

But it isn't "the same thing." Nowhere near. I haven't seen any PT fan get even half as vicious in their rhetoric as a typical PT-disliker, or as persistent. And for those TFA fans who cry about PT fans "trashing" their precious movie, they need to get a thicker skin. Not even the harshest criticism of the movie comes anywhere near the stuff that's been said about the PT...for nearly two decades.

PT-dislikers consider it their holy crusade to crush the prequels, and any positive discussion of them, because they cannot accept that some people genuinely like the prequels, that they haven't "fooled themselves into believing TPM is a good movie" (direct quote from a PT-disliker). And now they're proving, as evidenced by their extreme reaction to even slight criticism of their precious TFA, that while they can dish it out, they can't take it, even if what they're taking is a much milder version of what they've been dishing out.

 

I have. Maybe it feels less vicious to you because you agree with their position?

The TFA haters have been just as venomous as the PT haters. The major difference is that there's a lot less people who hate TFA. So in terms of volume, yes, it's less intense. But in terms of rhetoric? Just as vile. It simply hasn't been out for over a decade yet since TFA came out only 9 months ago. Probably best to take a step back from your personal vendetta. The anger bleeds throughout every response I've seen you make in this thread. I recognize it because I get the same way in matters of politics (burn them all!).

 

What are you even saying?

PT fans need to get used to people hating the movies??? You mean like what's been happening for almost 20 years? Come on now bruh....

And we all know that the Pt forums are more apparent for PT arguments over the quality of the movie than either the TFA forums and especially the CT forums. Even the cave was shut down in the TFA forums because people were complaining about there being a lot of "hate" ruining it.

I think it's more so that Other sects of the fanbases need to know that everything is not as wildly loved as it seems despite all the general appreciation and appraise.



But no, fans still need to know how much hate the movies are...


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I don't get it. We PT fans are told to suck it up when we complain about the hatred and negativity, but the TFA fans get coddled and deferred to?

We who like the PT have been putting up with vicious rhetoric toward the PT, from every angle, for years. And yet we're the ones told to be tolerant and who get lectured about "negativity." Everyone else gets to have their forums completely free of criticism of what they like.

 

At the most basic level, the public dislike of the prequels stems from the fact that many couldn't connect to the PT characters in the same way that they connected to the OT characters.

 

I get it. There are ****posters out there. I've certainly done my share of ****posting over the years so I understand that it exists. Making fun of the PT has been a favorite pastime of mine since the day I realized the prequels were not ever going to live up to the CT in my eyes. So I understand. You are free to descend to the same level of ****posting if you want, or you can choose to act like a mature adult, but you can't have it both ways at the same time. It's still going to come off sounding like this:

 

Problem solved.

 

Huh, the most recent take on this thread was a PT hater complaining that PT lovers were calling him/her names through criticisms of PT hate. The PT fans were all like "pssshhh" and now we have accusations of McCarthyism.

LOL. Can we get back to the thread topic or are we going to continue to lecture each other on playground etiquette?

I think the PT films are criticized because like all movies, some people liked them fine and some people didn't like them very much. And they aren't perfect. I mean, every movie has things people like and other things they don't.

I think the reason there's this large amount of deranged bashing of them is because some people were crushed that they didn't like them very much and they simply can't let it go. That's something completely different though.

But it's cool. No one is forcing anyone to like the prequels. This isn't a scene from A Clockwork Orange.

 

The New Testament wasn't written in the Bronze Age, it was written in the Roman Iron Age.

Sorry for derailing, I'll return to my cave now

 

Facts are good. I appreciate the correction!

On a thread-related note, it seemed like a lot of the TFA bashing was PT fans/George Lucas purists who were claiming "now it's my turn to pile on something I don't like!" When it comes to participating in bashing, no one ends up being Obi-Wan. No one has the high ground. I mean, there are some who have always kept their critique solely on the films, so they have high ground, but then the ROTS anecdote I just made fumbles.

 

The short answer for why they're criticized is that the criticizers are articulating reasons why they didn't like the movies. Sometimes it's a fun exercise if the movies were important to them and they want to have a discussion about it. And the fact that it's a popular movie franchise makes it all the more fascinating to talk about what worked & what didn't work. Other times, though, it's an emotional exercise if the movies angered them or let them down.

For bashing though, there are probably deep-rooted internal reasons. Bashing obviously gets a rise out of people so perhaps bashers enjoy being able to do this; so it would be about having power over others' reactions. Some bashers bash in order to be accepted by the "cool" bashers. Others bash because they once felt bashed on and so they carry on the bash-torch to do a sort of counter-bash (bashing those who bashed them) or a displacement-bash (group X bashes group Y and so group Y bashes group Z).

 

As an aside for a minute, I don't even know what McCarthyism even means (as a non native American I am new to the whole USA political scene, recently buying a copy of USA Presidents for dummies, which I have yet to read) carry on though

SW Saga Fan I have indeed read the ROTS novel and have noticed it is parts of peoples signatures too always good to know the theme is still alive at least

 

Basically, McCarthyism = witch hunts.

 

good to know, cheers!

 

I somehow missed your post until just now. Yeah, this is a great description of what's going on under the surface. I also find it hard to disagree with John Williams' icon, on principle, lmao.

 

& during that time people were targeted & criticized for even "liking" or associating with suspected enemies of Western democracy. If the internet were around then you'd need to be careful who you "liked". Let's hope we don't see those days again

 

Double post. Sorry!

 

You made an implication and I stated it's existence. That's all that happened.

Based on your reaction, you seem to not care about an acceptance of any kind and just have an agenda to mock others faith in God. Seeming to mock the faith of others or in this post borderline actively mocking, making false claims like saying that I do it at the end of every post, when I don't and making a claim that it's evangelism, which it isn't actively, nor is it active praying in the way you suggest. My statements are absolutely necessary to me personally and to how I interact with others, as it keeps me from being mean-spirited. Your statements seem to be unnecessary, based on the way you put them out. I should suggest though, that if you feel that this shouldn't be expressed openly, that you take your own advice and not express your beliefs, unless they aren't your beliefs and you are being insincere, which creates a huge difference between me saying what I say and why I say it and you doing it just to be antagonistic, which you haven't denied. Have a very great day!

God bless you all!

 

While I completely disagree that all or most TFA bashers are PT fans (some of the worst in the cave hated the PT too), I really like your fumbling of the ROTS scene with Obi-Wan. That was pretty funny.

theMaestro I also appreciated your using the word "bash" about 1000 times, LOL.