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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT Why Are The PT Films criticized? (catch-all thread)

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Seagoat, Jan 17, 2016.

  1. seventhbeacon

    seventhbeacon Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2015

    Vader is clearly positioned as antagonist in the plot structure of the OT films, making him not the main character. It is definitely Luke.
     
  2. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    It's both.
    Luke is the hero, but the six films are now meticulously structured to make the PT Anakin's slide and the OT Vader's slide back.
    It is all over his screentime in the OT now, to deny it is to miss a huge chunk of the reality of the films.
     
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  3. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

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    Nov 20, 2012
    I just consider the PT the trilogy of Anakin and the OT as the trilogy of Luke.
     
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  4. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    You can see the Saga how you want to, and I'll see the Saga how I want to.

    Different opinions and all that.

    Anakin's story is important to you, but not to me.
     
  5. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Didn't mean it to come of that way.

    However if you include the PT at all as Star Wars in general, you are really doing yourself a disservice to segregate them like that.
    The OT functions with or without the PT, that is the choice. But if you watch the PT at all the films really thrive on each other, Imo it is a waste of time to watch them as separate stories in the first place.
     
  6. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Just as a quick summary, and this is being extremely broad.

    You have the first movie, Anakin almost pure good. The first movie of the OT Vader is almost pure bad.
    The middle movies introduce the conflicts, but opposite: A family member can die, and you are sworn not to let this corrupt you / A family member lives, and you are sworn not to become attached to him, essentially being his enemy.
    In the final film your "less selfish" attempt to gain power to preserve things leads to solely selfish power / In the final film your more selfish attempt to recruit Luke as a Sith leads to just saving him out of selfless love.

    The struggle against the dark vs the struggle against the light.

    Anakin is pulled down by Palpatine and joins him, severing his bond to Obi-Wan and the Jedi / Anakin is pulled up by Luke, rejoining the Jedi and balancing everything.

    Like I said, maybe it is obvious, and I'm speaking in block terms, but once you see it from this angle there is an absolute mother-load of either trivial or very meaningful details that support it.
     
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  7. theMaestro

    theMaestro Jedi Master star 3

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    Oct 16, 2015
    I include it, but I view it more as a sequel to the OT. Chronologically, it takes place before. But to me, Lucas' ideas seem to evolve in a step-wise fashion from the first film (ANH) to his last (ROTS). It's like walking up a staircase. But if I'm watching episodically, it's like I start walking up the staircase, then fall down a huge chasm when I get to ANH to land in 1977 when Lucas' ideas for the saga were first starting to take shape. Back then, there was no "tragedy of Darth Vader"; there was only a generic bad guy named Darth who we don't even get to see that often. And the Force was just an ancient religion, not something that was used widespread only 19 years ago. And try as I may, I am unable to get out of that mindset when I watch the OT.
     
  8. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    I can relate to that, afterall ANH was the first SW film I saw as well. It is indeed probably the more jarring progression in the series (ep3-ep4), particularly aesthetically, and ESB and ROTJ are easier to reconcile with a bigger picture.

    But for me it still flows in an abstract way. It's like everything builds in intensity going 1-3 and then episode three implodes on itself. When we get to ANH everyone is still a little dazed by what has transpired, kind of sluggishly picking up the pieces, sort of not really admitting how much they hate the current state of things that was brought about when the Republic fell.

    I don't know if this is how it feels to most viewers.
     
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  9. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 20, 2005

    Why are you in the PREQUEL TRILOGY forum, then, if that's how you feel?
     
  10. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    You're kidding right? Only must like Anakin or get out?
    How accepting of you. Claiming to be more accepting than OT fans. (All that stuff about fans who despise Jar Jar are not open-minded and fail to understand human interactions and humanity in general and what not.)
    NOT.

    I find Luke's story more engaging than I do Anakin's. Not Sorry. Opinions and all that.
    Just because I find Luke's story more engaging than Anakin's, doesn't mean I'n going to tell you in the OT Forum if you said that to me "Why are you in the OT forum, if that's how you feel."

    There's more to the PT than just Anakin. He is the most important part but not the only part.
    Obi-Wan, Yoda, Dooku, pod-racing, Palpatine, the Jedi in their prime, the Separatists, Maul, the tragedy of Darth Plagueis, John Williams, the seismic charges, Duel of the Fates, Across the Star, Battle of the Heroes, Confrontation with Count Dooku, the execution arena, the monsters, the Clones, the double-sided lightsaber, the planets, Love Pledge and the Arena. Watto, etc.

    Just because I don't like Anakin's story as much as much as I do with Luke's (or analyze every single pixel of every single frame of all 3 PT movies and tie every single thing together in the movies and to a bunch of stuff outside of the movies like you and others on this board do) like you doesn't mean I hate the PT.

    And
     
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  11. Darthman92

    Darthman92 Force Ghost star 6

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    Feb 24, 2016
    In all fairness whilst I agree that that was an assumption that shouldn't have been made on Cryo's part, I don't think its an unforgivable mistake either. When one phrases their opinion as "I don't care for" the story arc of a trilogy's central character it doesn't feel like all that much of a leap. It would be kind of like saying one didn't care for the story-arc of Michael Corleone in the "Godfather" films, or not caring much about the story arc of Bruce Wayne in the "Dark Knight " movies, Frodo's side of the story in "The Lord of the Rings", or that of Neo in the "Matrix Trilogy" and so on but also at the end of the day likes those sets. If one believes another person doesn't care for the main character of their own story, right or wrong it isn't the worst crime in the world to think that. At least not enough that I think it requires a rant to call them out as a hypocrite that wants to shut out opinions. He generally comes off as respectful to me anyway.
     
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  12. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Omg had a relatively long post almost fully written and my computer crashed :mad:
    Here we go again...



    Agreed on all points.



    This is part of the irony. Palpatine appoints Anakin to the Council knowing the Jedi will partly reject him and also take advantage of the opportunity to spy on Palpatine, as they are already rightly suspicious.
    The real irony is the Jedi think they are defying the Chancellor but Palpatine doesn't even want Anakin to go, he has Anakin where he wants. The Jedi Council think Anakin and Palpatine want Anakin to be sent, but this is really only Anakin's preference. The Council is helping push Anakin towards the Sith; in this case Anakin's desire to leave and fight in battle, what he does best, could have possibly saved him. He is burdened with a more internal fight, something he is less wired for, and is growing closer to the Chancellor by Palpatine's design.




    I agree, Palpatine was clever to have the Jedi get rid of this obstacle for him. On Coruscant as Palpatine's right-hand man, without the influence of Obi-Wan, was about the last place Anakin needed to be.



    I disagree, it was a significant factor.

    Firstly, Grievous invaded Coruscant, home planet to the Jedi Temple, and he and his wife's home. He kidnaps Anakin's close friend and mentor Palpatine, and threatens the inhabitants of the Republic capital. So to Anakin, Grievous is directly threatening the lives of Palpatine and Padme, really the whole war is.
    Grievous also almost kills Anakin and Obi-Wan several times on the Invisible Hand; in the noveliation he is the one messing with the elevators to try and hurt them, he breaks the window on the bridge and almost suffocates them and sucks them into space, then he launches all the ship's escape pods without them so they are stuck.
    The existence of Grievous is prolonging the war, sending the Jedi on a "wild Bantha chase" and contributing to Anakin's stress levels. Anakin starts to itch for the quick fix.


    Secondly, Grievous embodies the Separatists for Anakin (and a large proportion of the Republic), after Dooku is dead. Anakin repeatedly says things indicating he looks down on Grievous, and hence the Separatists...

    ANAKIN: General Grievous. You're shorter than I expected. (While this can be brushed off as witty banter, it is a similar comment to his daughter's remark in ANH when she thinks Luke is a stormtrooper. Grievous, like the Stormtroopers of the OT, are kind of dehumanised in the eyes of the heroes. ROTS is certainly greyer than the OT regarding this.)

    ANAKIN: The fighting will continue until General Grievous is... spare parts.


    PADME: What if the democracy we thought we were serving no longer exists, and the Republic has become the very evil we have been fighting to destroy?
    ANAKIN: I don't believe that. And you're sounding like a Separatist!


    ANAKIN: You wanted to see me, Chancellor.
    PALPATINE: Yes, Anakin! Come closer. I have good news. Our Clone Intelligence Units have discovered the location of General Grievous. He is hiding in the Utapau system.
    ANAKIN: At last, we'll be able to capture that monster and end this war.
    PALPATINE: I would worry about the collective wisdom of the Council if they didn't select you for this assignment. You are the best choice by far.



    The following sheds some light on Anakin's desire for the mission:

    MACE: How could the Chancellor have come by this information and we know nothing about it? We have had contact with Baron Papanoida and he said no one was there.
    ANAKIN: A partial message was intercepted in a diplomatic packet from the Chairman of Utapau.
    YODA: Act on this, we must. The capture of General Grievous will end this war. Quickly and decisively we should proceed.
    ANAKIN: The Chancellor has requested that I lead the campaign.
    They all look at ANAKIN a bit disturbed.
    MACE: (a little peeved) The Council will make up its own mind who is to go, not the Chancellor.
    Kl-ADI-MUNDI: Yes, this decision is ours to make.
    ANAKIN is embarrassed and becomes sullen.
    YODA: A Master is needed, with more experience.
    MACE: Given our resources, I recommend we send only one Jedi . . . Master Kenobi.
    ANAKIN: He was not so successful the last time he met Grievous.
    OBI-WAN throws ANAKIN a dirty look.
    ANAKIN: (continuing) No offense, my Master, but I'm only stating a fact.
    OBI-WAN: Oh no, you're quite right, but I do have the most experience with his ways of combat.
    YODA: Obi-Wan, my choice is.
    Kl-ADI-MUNDI: I concur. Master Kenobi should go.



    The Council's attitude toward Anakin is exemplified by how they deal with Grievous. At the first meeting that Anakin experiences on the Council, they reject Anakin's mastership, then instead of discussing something deeper or more subtle they discuss Grievous, Kashyyk, and the Outer-Rim sieges. When Anakin is present they tend to speak only about things they want Palpatine to hear when Anakin directly reports to him.

    Again, when Grievous is engaged by Obi-Wan, Mace asks Anakin to report this info to Palpatine, then after Anakin leaves he divulges about something more personal, "a plot to destroy the Jedi."



    ANAKIN: You're going to need me on this one, Master.
    OBI-WAN: Oh, I agree. However it may turn out just to be a wild bantha chase.
    Anakin's words there said more than it appeared on the surface.


    Deleted scene (again showing Anakin's perception of Grievous):

    PALPATINE: Well, Anakin, did you see your friend off?
    ANAKIN: He will soon have Grievous's head.
    PALPATINE: We can only hope the Council didn't make a mistake.
    ANAKIN: The Council was very sure in its decision.



    And finally, the last time Anakin mentions Grievous:
    ANAKIN: Chancellor, we have just received a report from Master Kenobi. He has engaged General Grievous.
    PALPATINE: We can only hope that Master Kenobi is up to the challenge!
    ANAKIN: I should be there with him.
    PALPATINE: It's upsetting to me to see that the Council doesn't seem to fully appreciate your talents. Don't you wonder why they haven't made you a Master?
    ANAKIN: I wish I knew. More and more I get the feeling that I'm being excluded from the Council.
    I know there are things about the force they're not telling me.


    So yeah, Grievous is not insignificant to the fall at all. It's all intertwined.

    Plus, the way Anakin tells Padme about his mission to Mustafar (after the Temple raid). He says "Separatists" quite hatefully, he is embracing his darker instincts.



    I agree that Kylo was a good villain, but Snoke was corny as hell. He has nothing on Sidious in both the PT or OT.
    Kylo Ren has more to say and do than Maul, and I find him a little more interesting than Dooku.
    But Anakin and Palpatine, with what we know so far from TFA, are more complex and layered than Kylo. We'll see where they go with it.




    What about Anakin/Vader and Palpatine :confused:



    Btw Visivious Drakarn, did you not catch this thread? Kylo vs Vader for 52 pages ;)
     
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  13. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Probably should have worded it, I don't care for Anakin's story as much as I do Luke's from the beginning but I digress.

    Cryo, yourself DM92, me and everyone else on the boards have their own opinions on SW is.

    IMO, the OT is the heart of the story and the PT was the interesting Lead up trilogy, plus the old EU.

    Just seems ironic seeing Cyro act like the OT only fans he claims to dislike.
    Or simplifying the PT to just one character when he can tie in one character, scene, frame, name, planet, species to multiple other things in the same movie or to multiple parts of other movies.
    The OT only crowd can be harsh but if you say one not so 100% positive thing about the PT, the PT/Saga fans will jump you.
    I am only human. I make mistakes. I don't love everything 100%. Gets old after a while if we agree with everything. Would you want me to lie and say I like something I don't?


    I have spoken positively on the PT before and have had respect for Cyro but being told "Why am I here, if that is how I feel" is a turn off.

    If Bruce's story in the DKT trilogy isn't to someone's taste, they have plenty other characters to enjoy, plus the comics, 60's tv series, 80,/90's movies, all of the animated series', etc.
    LOTR could follow the books, cartoon movies, PJ movies, or follow Gandalf or Aragorn.
     
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  14. seventhbeacon

    seventhbeacon Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2015

    #Maiar4Life!

    And yeah, asking people why they're in the forum is not cool, especially when said person has remained cordial whenever posting (I refer to Force Smuggler, not myself). Put the blasters back in the holsters.


    Reality of fictional films is debatable. And Yeah, disagreeing strongly. Loki is not the main character of the Thor and Avengers movies. Joker is not the main character of the Dark Knight. Darth Vader is not the main character of ANH, ESB or ROTJ. And so on and so forth. Protagonist, antagonist, etc. They're all crucial villains and characters to the plot, but that has always been the role of antagonists in any stories told, especially ones that conform so strongly to the Hero's Journey.
     
  15. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Fair enough.
    Although I don't know if even I would call Vader the main character in a traditional sense, outside the PT. More the fulcrum or centre around which everything moves.
    Having been a fan of the OT first, I get that it can take some perhaps undesired rethinking for it to work 1-6. Although most of the OT characterisation outside of Obi-Wan and Vader is basically intact.
    It's like Lucas commented, making the PT was like an interactive approach to film making. Moving pieces around and totally restructuring the narrative. Even if you don't agree with much of his decisions, to me it is still something he is not given enough credit for.





    Samuel Vimes
    Re-reading my posts on this thread I noticed I repeated some points without really addressing your criticism.



    Yeah, and from what I know of the changes I think Lucas should have stayed truer to the original cut. Anakin is less dark yet more sympathetic in the final version, so it's good and bad.
    I do think a skeleton of the other aspects of Anakin's turn are still there however, you just have to look for it.
    I don't think, going by the novelisation and the final script, that these aspects were by any means minor.



    I talked about this partially in my bigger post above.
    Dooku is more representative of Anakin's sworn enemy as a Jedi, the Sith. Anakin has vengeful hate for him, and perhaps some level of respect as he is a fellow force-user.
    With Grievous it seems a little cruder a grudge, like for a dangerous criminal or something. Perhaps, Anakin thinks Grievous is already beneath him, with Dooku he seeks to lower him to there.


    Grievous did the kidnapping though. And Grievous becomes rationalisation for the Jedi to keep fighting after Dooku is gone, something that warps into Anakin's desire to bring "peace" later in the film.
    Like I said, the Jedi order Obi-Wan to take out Grievous in a light mirror of Anakin's later slaughter of the Separatist Council.
    But I somewhat see your point.
     
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  16. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005

    Thanks for the defence. I found the original remark questionable given how terse it was. As you just elucidated, putting down the central character -- and as abstruse as I can be, Anakin is clearly the central character of the main saga -- reads as a broad-brush dismissal of the entire work; especially when in response to someone rather harmlessly trying to assert that idea in the first place.

    Other than that, maybe I'm too jumpy. But I hope I can't be blamed too hard for that. After all, these past few weeks, we've had an active PT basher asserting over and over, in very long-winded posts, what a horrible character Anakin is, how he's far worse than other miserable characters in other movies and television shows, and what a failure as an artist and a human being George Lucas is for creating him. On top of that, this same person insulted the intelligence of prequel fans multiple times, slamming us for being unable to comprehend subtlety, while contradicting themselves by constantly speaking about prequel characters in the most vitriolic and black-and-white of terms, and venerating the clarity of the OT and the simplicity of the characters of TFA at every turn.

    And this is the PT forum. So I would expect people to be a bit more open to the idea that Anakin is a prime part of the "George Lucas" saga, I-VI, rather than flatly rebuffing anyone who asserts such a thing. The latter action actually reads a tad defensive to me. No, no, don't try telling me Anakin's story has a great deal of importance. Keep your crazy saga theories to yourself. Who do you think you are to step on my view of the saga? Well, indeed. But if you're just going to shoot back with a negative affirmation, there isn't really much to discuss, is there?



    I think you're being a touch melodramatic at the end. Anakin's story is a huge part of the movies and you can dislike it or be indifferent to it all you like. But a standard line of attack is for people bashing the PT to zero in on Anakin's story, and the character generally, and trash them. So when I see someone responding as you did, it makes me think, "Are they a prequel fan, really?" Perhaps you are, but you don't always lend that impression.

    I'll just add, for all your talk of everyone having their own opinion, you liked the following posts earlier in the thread.

    It's this sort of thing that leaves me with the feeling you don't always respect other people's opinions as much as you now protest:



    (I've taken out one of the quotes and slightly shortened the following post)

    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...tch-all-thread.50040625/page-13#post-53690077



    This was another post you liked in response to one of my own:

    (Again, I have removed quoted material for readability)

    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...atch-all-thread.50040625/page-9#post-53672303



    A typical basher position is to assert that filmmaking has an "objective" aspect (first post); denying the subjective abilities of Lucas as a storyteller, and trying to pass it off as objective criticism, is another common characteristic (second post). So, between you liking these two posts, and some of your own remarks elsewhere, it doesn't always seem you like the PT very much, or even grant that people's opinions are all equally valid. Then there is you appearing to chide and condescend to me over my own opinions and posting style; not to mention insinuating I am behaving no better than a staunch OT fan. But perhaps I have done you a disservice.
     
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  17. seventhbeacon

    seventhbeacon Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2015

    I can definitely appreciate that. Editing can completely reshape a film, changing the tone, feel, and even the plot with the right cuts. One of Lucas' strongest suits has been the editing room, and having a director who is also a skillful editor allows a film a unity of vision, or even helps when tweaking the original vision to blend it into a different structure. And yeah, while I'm disgusted by decisions that undermine characters (Greedo shooting first/simultaneously), the altered ending to ROTJ, for instance, went a long way toward making that 6 film unified whole that Lucas ended up wanting to craft throughout the Prequel filming era (1999-2005, yeesh that makes me feel even older, calling it an era and realizing it started nearly 20 years ago).
     
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  18. Ord Sorrell

    Ord Sorrell Jedi Knight star 3

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    Oct 16, 2016
    Back when they came out...

    I remember the major criticisms being the CGI and Jar Jar Binks...

    In time many grew to appreciate the CGI and the difference in "style" the CGI provided. (for instance the more organic shaped ships in the first film)

    But I don't think many ever truly warmed up to jar jar binks
     
  19. seventhbeacon

    seventhbeacon Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2015

    I never did much care for Jar Jar as a character, though his CGI was pretty impeccable, top of the game until Gollum came along and just stunned me with the performance the animators captured. And while yes, CGI was painful with excessive green screens in some shots, I'm reminded that the visually weakest bits of TFA were the CGI ones... Maz looked like a cartoon (whereas Jar Jar looked real, only acted like a cartoon), Snoke looked like an unfinished concept, and both them and the Rathtars felt fuzzy and fake compared to the grit and reality of the rest of the film. I know it's odd as I'm usually more of a prequel detractor, but I think about how the aliens and monsters looked in the PT and they just seemed more real and part of that world (less so the clones in AOTC, those were pretty awful looking).
     
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  20. theMaestro

    theMaestro Jedi Master star 3

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    Oct 16, 2015
    Yeah I feel the same way and I think it has a lot to do with the visual styles of the various films. For me, AOTC's CGI does look fake at times but it fits the visual aesthetic since pretty much everything looks clean, shiny, and digital. It's like when you watch a black-and-white film, and you know the world isn't actually colorless, but you can immerse yourself in the film anyway since its visual style is consistent within itself. That's why, on a purely visual level, I have a bigger issue with CG Jabba in the 2004/2011 SE of ANH than I do with any of the CGI in the prequels; the former feels out of place within ANH's visual style whilst the prequel CGI feels right at home (for the most part) thus allowing me to set my suspension-of-disbelief meter at a consistent level for the whole movie.
     
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  21. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Totally agreed, the SE pushes my suspension of disbelief to it's limit more than anything in the PT. And I saw the SE first as well.
     
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  22. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005

    A lot of it is very deliberate.

    A very watery/rubbery-looking digital stormtrooper dismounts a dewback outside the cantina and Threepio remarks, "I don't like the look of this."

    Threepio, the Greek chorus of the OT, commenting on the opposite of what he is: a fake, smooth, overly-perfect sensual blob of digital artistry.

    Meanwhile, in the cantina, an alien creep has just lost his prosthetic arm to an optically rotoscoped flickery blue laser, projected from a tube, wielded by an "old fossil".

    Then a chorus within the cantina plays a satirical jazz melody on tube-like (lightsaber-like) instruments, which becomes the background music as Obi-Wan bargains with an iconic smuggler for safe passage to Alderaan, a planet soon to be exploded by the Empire.
     
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  23. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 3, 2016
    Cryogenic Well, yes...you sort of have. The reason why I brought up those two authors was to bring up the subject of writing dialogue and effective mystery. That's really something I've always criticized about the movies. Especially since the political stories that took place in the former EU in the prequel era like Republic, Cloak of Deception, Labyrinth of Evil, the cut content included in the ROTS novelization, etc. were all more enjoyable due to having writers like John Ostrander and Matthew Stover behind them. Besides, I always tend to admire George's visual eye when it comes to film making because that is his major strength (think back to how the visuals seem to transition from idyllic in TPM to the hellish and dark atmospheres of ROTS on Coruscant and Mustafar). Hell, you can find a lot of threads on these forums that show that exact thing. However, I think the PT, while certainly containing an interesting story, would have had a more refined script if he had collaborated with writers like the ones I mentioned.

    There is simply a lot of evidence that shows the amount of passion that George has for the editing room and I feel that he should have utilized his abilities as best he could in that way rather than overextending himself. He did that with the previous films and I think that if he had done that with this one, it would have presented the things many people like about the PT (the grand war, the intrigue, the mystery, the politics, the characters) due to the EU and brought more of it into the actual trilogy. Probably could have surpassed the OT in that regard.
     
  24. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 20, 2005

    Metatextually...

    The original movie as a "trash compactor".



    Ah, don't sweat it. I wasn't specifically referring to you at the end of that other post. I just brought one of your posts in to make a point.

    I guess I have little problem with your opinion in and of itself; although, yes, it did look like you rendered it in flat contradiction -- as a sort of disproof -- of what I originally wrote about the aesthetic differences between the trilogies.


    Fair enough. Ancillary material of various kinds brings more heft to the saga. I'm with you to that extent.

    And great observation on the stark transition from the idyllic landscapes of TPM to the dank eschatological atmosphere of ROTS. Love the sweeping contrasts of the saga.


    Well, I think he did surpass the OT, in several regards.

    And I remain in awe of the finished result.

    JMO, anyway.
     
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  25. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 3, 2016
    There are quite a few parts where I do as well. The Battle of Coruscant, the duel between Anakin and Dooku, some parts of Obi-Wan's mystery solving, the Battle of Geonosis, etc.

    Also, I appreciate him adding more complex themes and a more complex view of morality to the Star Wars universe that many didn't expect. Again, I still believe there was a lot of passion and ambition involved. Just in some places more than others.
     
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