PT Why Are The PT Films criticized? (catch-all thread)

The problem with the Clones in this shot, and the entire PT as well, is the uncanny valley effect. They don't move in the way normal humans do, thus it becomes obvious that they are CGI characters. And yes, the OT had obvious matte paintings. TFA had moments of obvious CGI. That doesn't excuse the PT though. The whole reason the "The PT used too much CGI" complaint even exists though is that, at the end of the day, the films are not well liked, and this complaint exists mostly because of that fact. If the OT or TFA had the backlash the Prequels did, they may very well have similar complaints. But those films are mostly well liked, so people are willing to let those things slide.

 

This looks like a cartoon to me, a old hand drawn one.



This looks like a cheap hand puppet because that is exactly what it is.





This shot always looks bad because TIEs materialize out of nothingness in the middle before zooming by, like a old video game.



http://search.aol.com/aol/video?q="super star" destroy crash&s_it=searchtabs&v_t=keyword_rollover

This one is loaded with lots of bad effects. So star destroyer bridges can burn like giant matchsticks in the vacuum of space. A wings disappear into shadows when they crash. SSDs turn into flares when they crash.



Now this is fake.



Vs these great cgi shots



or Endor barrage with no gun details or damage details.



vs ROTS with loads of rich detailing.



There are guns, damage, and cause and effect.

Here you can even see gunports which OT ships lack.

 

Besides the space slug both those groups of shots all look real enough to me

Edit
The exploding tie-fighter is one of my favourite shots. And the battle of Coruscant is indeed detailed.

One thing I do think is a little fake is the shot TheMoldyCrow suggested. It is well done, but if I wanted it to look like a real battle I wouldn't be satisfied. It's a little... trippy... although this can help the illusion we are watching something from an ancient time through kind of a "visor" if that makes sense.

 

Each to their own. But CGI clone troopers over real actors in actual stormtrooper suits? Really?

Slicer87 it's just opinion not fact. Don't take it so personally.

 

I'll take the CGI clones tbh. Clones in general where just more varied to me than stromtroopers. I also find them more menacing. I guess some may just see CGI blobs but when I see stormtroopers, I just think of random actors and dudes under there probably trying to find their way through the scene.

 

Just being a bit hyperboric for effect. With the shear numbers of fx shots in each film there is bound to be some dudes.

 

When you watch this video its incredible how they put the shots together. No undo button.

 

While the CG looks good in the opening scenes of ROTS, I always felt the ROTJ battle was far better choreographed. You got a sense of strategy. The ROTS battle was just chaotic, with too much stuff happening at the same time IMO. To me it was a typical example if less is more. Ultimately, the ROTJ was more exciting to me, than the ROTS battle.

 

I didn´t find most of the CG in Episode VII In Name Only to be that much better.

 

I prefer the space battle of ROTS because it feels like the results of real civil war. Chaotic. I always find wars/battles where no distinct battle lines are drawn to be the most interesting. It feels like I'm watching a huge scale battle unfold.

 

lol what

 

I think he means he doesn't consider TFA to be a legit sequel to ROTJ. Pretty sure, I think that's what he meant.

 

Well there is no question alot of work went into both battles. But there are plenty of mistakes in the Endor battle. In the lost pilot thread on the ot board, several rebel capital ships are imposed upside down. Plus there are some short cuts like scene flipping and using a close up, lower SD hull model for a up close upper hull short, which some people claim is a Tector class SD.

As for which battle is more complex, ROTJ is really more complex with the switching between 3 battle fronts in the throne room, space, and ground. While in ROTS we simply follow Obi and Anakin's front from space to onboard the Invisible Hand. However, I feel ROTS was far better detailed and better executed capital ship engagements. The capital ship engagements in ROTJ are lacking IMO. I don't think rebel frigates even have gun details like most of the other ships.

 

That's what I assumed, but I still don't understand that. I mean, it takes place after Jedi and continues the story. I think that qualifies it enough to be a legit sequel.

 

Space battles are well suited for CGI, IMO. Although I have criticism of the ROTS opening sequence, how it looks is not one of them. It is important, of course, to remember that the ROTJ battle was made more than 20 years before ROTS.

The flame plume fromt eh Executor was perfectly reasonable, though., Atmosphere venting from the ship were certainly permit flames. Although scientific accuracy is NOT typically something you watch Star Wars for.

 

I'm not surprised there were mistakes. Hand comping and tracking everything with hundreds of rolls of film.

So what if they don't have gun details? I never cared. There is a lot more detail but it all comes down to what you prefer. Sigh, IN MY OPINION the ROTS battle is just a very detailed mess of stuff thrown at the screen. With the limitations of ROTJ it feels like a miracle taking place before you.

I've made space battles on my computer. It's tons easier. The respect I have for optically done effects is off the chain. To see comments like "they don't even have gun details" is really rather irksome.

 

Both are exteremly complex with tons of detail to them. The whole point of ROTS's space battle being a mess IS SOLELY BECAUSE of war. SW OT visuals of War was more simpler because of the lessened amount of troops. Of course its messy. The more soldiers, enemies etc the crazier it gets. Order doesn't apply here. It's outclassed.

 

Lucas should NOT have shoot digitally IMO. Where is the third member of the Blue Man Group?

 

I don't think you get it. Valorum had to call a vote on whether or not to act on what Amidala had brought to the Senate. He fails to do so, as at the last moment his advisor whispers in his ear and he doesn't continue with his previous motion, Amidala's original motion. Therefore, the Jedi never even had a moment to present their case, because it never even got to that point. When Valorum fails to call a vote on her initial motion, she then calls a vote of no confidence in him. There was never a time when it would have made any sense whatsoever for the Jedi to appear. Their testimony would have aided a motion that never even came to fruition.

 

Exactly, one battle the empire outnumbered and outmatched the rebels with surprise on their side, while the other war the republic and cis are much more evenly matched. A stalemate that is inflected heavy losses on both side and just chaos. The ot civil war never reached the level widespread chaos as the pt clone war did.

It is not irksome that the ot just did not have the technology to be as detailed as the pt. It is nice to see laser blasts coming out of gun barrels rather than from the middle of hull panels and hits that cut into hulls and debris flying out rather than just flames and glows sitting on top of hulls.

Now to be fair, in ROTJ ISDs, MC cruisers, and corvettes do have gun details, though the fx crew did not bother to utilize them. While frigates lack any gun details, and perhaps the models are unarmed despite the added animated laser fire.

 

I get it fine and there were more than one time when the Jedi could have appeared.
First, Valorum could start by saying "I have an update on the situation on Naboo, here are two Jedi that just returned from there." And they give their report on what happened.
Yes the TF guy might still object but the Jedi are more neutral than Padme is, as it is her planet that has been attacked. So less grounds for a bias.
It would be no different than if a Jedi was on a planet and there was an outbreak of plague. This Jedi could go back and inform the senate of these events. And then the senate could decide on what to do.
To argue, like you did earlier, that the Jedi are not allowed to report on anything except what they have been sent out to observe is silly and nonsensical. This way the Jedi can never report on any unexpected events as they were not sent out to watch those events because they were, you know, unexpected.

Second, when the objections are raised about proof, Valroum could admit that they are needed but a quick solution is possible, the two Jedi that just came back from Naboo and they appear.
Third, when Palpatine tells Padme that the senate might not act then it would make sense for her to ask if having the jedi there to verify her story would help.
And lastly when Valorum asks Padme to defer, she could say "No need for an investigation, ask the two Jedi ambassadors that you sent to negotiate with the TF. They can back up my story."

An easy alternative exists, the sending of the Jedi WAS a breach of protocol by Valorum, that is why he is in trouble. And this is why they can't appear to verify what Padme says.
This way you tie back to earlier events, give a more solid reason for Valorums hesitation and neatly explains why the Jedi aren't there.

In closing, I understand fine why this happens, Valorum is removed so that Palpatine can take his place.
I just don't think it was handled all that well. And I think that there was potential for something more here. Terrence Stamp is a pretty good actor but he is wasted here. Valorum had some interesting potential both with his sending the Jedi at the start to break the stalemate and how he would handle the now much bigger problem of war.
Plus I found the Coruscant scenes really dull. And I like political plotting in stories but here it was dreadfully boring. It all about what the plot needs to happen and not much else.

This is a minor issue but I feel that the total absence of the Jedi is odd and I also find it odd that the Jedi Council, who must know that this indeed real, that they aren't more concerned.

The TF have attacked a republic world, killing who knows how many, and could attack others. The senate has proven powerless to act on this matter plus the TF have a big army while the republic has none.
This plus the possible return of their worst enemy, the sith, I think should call for more action and worry from the Jedi. Yes I get that a point of the PT is to shown how complacent and stagnated the Jedi have become. But to me it made the Jedi seem too incompetent and clueless.

But I doubt we will get any further here so let's agree to disagree.

Bye.
The Guarding Dark

 

I always find it interesting that in these cases people talk about the CG in ROTS but don`t talk about the models and motion control in ROTJ.

ROTS was supposed to be chaotic to the eye. It`s one of the best examples of more is more and therefore quintessential Star Wars. I mean think about it. STAR WARS and we finally get to see actual W-A-R in the Stars.

I for one get kind of tired of the less is more being idealized. For one the less is more ethic is totally not the basis of Star Wars. That more is more approach that Lucas employed for all the movies.

As I said before it`s only in retrospect that some fans are applying this idea that the OT had some less is more approach. It didn`t. They did everything they possible and realistically could at the time. Back then what they were doing was EPIC. Then the PT came along and actually made things so EPIC that the OT looked lesser in comparison. Until TFA each SW movie was larger and larger. TFA intentionally regressed on many levels intentionally. I would say that they were not authentic to Star Wars (which they say is that which they were going for).

For one trying to out imagine Lucas is a very difficult thing to do in the first place and they also wanted to apply the OT version of EPIC or rather one that exceeds the OT but doesn`t match the PT. Like most things in the movie it wanted to reach a middle point between the two.

One of (maybe the best) theatre experiences I have ever had was the premiere midnight showing of ROTS.

The audience was totally engaged in the film and one of the many big hits was R2 at the start of the movie. I did not notice at all that R2 was `CG` anymore than I have ever been worried about him being a prop. Both are just as real to me because I (and the audience) was into the movie and the story.

R2 taking out the battle droids was one of the biggest audience reactions I have ever heard in any SW movie. It`s much like AOTC with Yoda. We have those few people who gripe about it not being a fake puppet or a fake prop but being fake CG. That it doesn`t look right because they want their preferred fake as opposed to being given a different fake.

As I say over and again it`s all fake so I feel no difference. Fake is fake so accept that and get on with engaging in the story.

 

Star Wars might be more is more to you. The PT might be more epic to you. It wasn't to me, and a great many others. We all have a different perspective, and experience. You obviously enjoyed the experience, and that's great. However, not everyone is like you. What is the best theatre experience for you, can be one of the worst for someone else. You might consider the possibility. You see unlike you, I'm thankful Lucas couldn't put his complete vision on the screen in the 1970s and 1980s. He was restricted, and in my view it helped produce a set of superior films, when compared to his later work.