Why are the Sith so eager to get rid of their apprentice/master

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by DarthSyphus, May 26, 2005.

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  1. DarthSyphus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 1
    Sidious killed Plagueis, he urged Anakin to kill Dookoo, and then he urged Luke to kill Vader, and Vader wanted to kill Sidious and rule with Padme and then again he wanted to kill the Emperor and rule with Luke.

    So, why do the Sith seem to be so eager to destroy their master/apprentice?

    My theory is that an apprentice can only succeed his master by killing him, that is why a master always tries to kill his apprentice once he has become too strong.
  2. Moriarte Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2001
    star 5
    For one thing, it is only implied that Palgeus was Sidious' Master-for all we know it could be a lie.

    Short answer-it's a power grab for the apprentice to kill the Master thereby gaining more control. That is the parasitic nature of the Dark Side.


    Ciou-See the Sig
  3. DarthSyphus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 1
    Yes, but why does a Master take an apprentice in the first place? Why are there always two, and not one? By taking an apprentice, he is ensuring his eventual demise, when he is too weak and his apprentice becomes stronger. So, I think that the Sith care for something other than their own selfish interest, i.e., the good of the Order, and they accept that the one sacrifice they must make for the enormous power of the Dark Side is to suffer a potentially horrible death at the hands of their apprentice.
  4. I_Bent_My_Wookie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2002
    star 3
    Why are there always two, and not one?


    To keep the order going.
  5. sith_rising Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2004
    star 4
    http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=19326095&start=19383790

    Check this out, a pretty good discussion of the topic.
  6. Bjork Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2002
    star 4
    In the ROTS novelization there's a neat line about treachery being the way of the Sith. And it makes sense: there's no compassion or sense of loyalty, just greed for power. (Like Moriarte said. :))
  7. darthYENIK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 2
    Look at sidious. How many apprentices had he had before vader? All of which he used to become emperor. A sith takes an apprentice, to use him to do the dirty work, and in some instances (count dooku) take the heat off. A sith knows the danger of taking an apprentice, but his pride probably tells him that he'll just be able to beat down the apprentice if nessesary. Which is usually the case, until the apprentice overpowers, and thus the cycle continues.
  8. DarthSyphus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 1
    I like the idea of a Sith Master taking an apprentice to do the dirty work, but the problem I have with this is the following: why did the Emperor keep Vader alive? It's not like he had much use of his Force abilities after all the Jedi were extinct. Even that line of "Only together we can bring him to the Dark Side" was not really true, because the Emperor clearly was in no danger from Luke and could take him down easily.
  9. Jeff_Fett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2002
    star 1
    The Emperor wanted Luke & Vader to fight it out. The strongest would win and if it was Luke then Palps would turn him to the dark side. Just like Anakin & Dooku. Always two there are.
  10. Ghetto-Wookie Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2005
    They're are greedy for power...It's a Dark Side thing, I guess...
  11. darthYENIK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 2
    I like the idea of a Sith Master taking an apprentice to do the dirty work, but the problem I have with this is the following: why did the Emperor keep Vader alive? It's not like he had much use of his Force abilities after all the Jedi were extinct. Even that line of "Only together we can bring him to the Dark Side" was not really true, because the Emperor clearly was in no danger from Luke and could take him down easily.

    Because, he needed still needed someone to protect him. I bet he could probably sense that vader could defeat him. But was certain that his hold on him was great enough to keep him in line. I mean all the jedi couldn't foresee anakins turn to the darkside until it was too late. My point is, anakin was always unpredictible. Almost as if he had a certain destiny, but only he knew the path he was going to take to get to it.
  12. DarthSyphus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 1
    Why did he need Vader to protect him? I don't think that there wasn't any Jedi in the galaxy strong enough to fight the Emperor, and certainly he could use regular troops/guards against lesser threats.
  13. DellowFelegate Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 1
    There is one other element that people here are overlooking. That's the Sith's hatred for the Jedi.

    You see, once all Sith are dead, the Jedi win. That's why Sith masters take apprentices. If the master is alone, then a freak accident could end the order and hand victory to the Jedi. Even without such an accident, the master will eventually die of old age and voila, the Jedi win. (As an aside, this may have encouraged/reinforced the Sith masters' interest in immortality).

    Having two Sith is a risk for the master. But having one Sith risks a much more repugnant outcome, ultimate victory for the Jedi. Even by the time of the Empire, when the Sith believe they have at last exterminated the Jedi, continuing the order is paramount. After all, victory consists of the Sith going on while the Jedi are extinct. (And of course, letting some backwater farmboy from Tattooine become a new Jedi ia out of the question...)
  14. DarthSyphus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 1
    Good point about the Sith hating the Jedi. This goes to show that the Sith are not just completely selfish, because if they were, then it wouldn't matter to them at all what happened after their death; they would just try to maximize their power, prolong their life, and they wouldn't care what happened afterwards. The fact that they do care about their Order, and its continuing fight against the Jedi shows that they are not completely self-centered.
  15. KMC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 1
    Treachery is the way of the Sith. It's a part of their mad lust for power, as Lucas calls it.
  16. Darth_Boppu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 2, 2005
    star 1
    If each apprentice becomes more powerful than his master, who became more powerful than his master, it is only logical that the Sith order would quickly become the most powerful group of force-users in the galaxy. They all know this, and are prepared for death for the Sith
  17. DarthSyphus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 1
    Great insight, Lord Boppu. Indeed, the practice of the Sith apprentices of overpowering their masters, and of Sith masters of letting their best apprentices win should have a long-term effect of improving the Force ability of the Sith, as always the most cunning and powerful Sith transmits the succession of the Order.
  18. DarthSyphus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 1
    That may also explain why the Sith value quality over quantity. Unlike the Jedi, who are interested in mundane service as keepers of peace and justice, the Sith are trying to hone their skills as Force users, studying all aspects of the Force. So, it makes sense that they have a code which values the strong over the weak, and also that they put themselves in danger trying to turn the most powerful Jedi to the Dark Side of the Force, and even afterwards. This aristocratic spirit of the Sith is quite evident when Darth Sidious boasts how Lord Vader will be even more powerful than himself.
  19. k_dog Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    Since Count Dooku was getting old and Anakin was still young he figured if he need an apprentice that would still live and do his dirty work for him. He would have chosen Anakin since Count Dooku would have died before Anakin would have and then he would have had to get a new apprentice anyway. Then in ROTJ since Darth Vader was getting older in his age he need a new apprentice so he would go after Luke Skywalker and have him kill Darth Vader just as he told Anakin to kill Count Dooku then Luke would be the new apprentice and would then take Darth Vaders place and the Sith would still continue.
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