Senate Why are these states the most Republican/Democratic?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Ghost, Oct 16, 2012.

  1. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    The 12 most Republican states (grouped by region) seem to be:
    Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota,
    Utah, Idaho, Wyoming,
    Mississipi, Alabama,
    Texas,
    and Alaska

    The 12 most Democratic states (grouped by region, and counting DC as a state) seem to be:
    Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Vermont, Maine, Connecticut,
    Maryland, Delaware, District of Columbia,
    New York, New Jersey,
    California,
    and Hawaii


    What explains why these states are so Democratic/Republican?

    Also, does most Democratic/Republican necessarily mean most Liberal/Conservative?
  2. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    Because of attitudes in those areas.
    Democratic/Republican does not necessarily mean liberal/conservative. There's a lot about specific values (gay marriage, charter schools, war, Obamacare, etc.) that goes into views.
  3. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    IMHO I think it's more a case of urban more likely Democratic/rural more likely Republican. If urban populations exceed rural populations, the state is more likely to go Democratic. That's true here in Washington: win in King County (Seattle) and you probably win the state. Sure, the eastern portion of the urban counties are quite Republican as is the eastern half of the state, but population numbers trump geography.

    Of course, here in Washington, it's pretty loosely aligned as Dem/urban/liberal and GOP/rural/conservative. May not appy to all states and is only a generalization. Most of my (former) co-workers in the urban Eastside are pretty conservative and greatly feared Obama's win 4 years ago because "he was going to take their hard-earned money and give to those who didn't work hard." True quote. Of course, this was in a conservative industry, small business...you know, the small business owners.
    Dark Lady Mara likes this.
  4. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Because them fancy city folk are all edumacated so they's more likely to vote for the demmycrats. Out here in the country, we's all dumb and such so we like to vote for sumone who's dumb like us.
    Last edited by timmoishere, Oct 16, 2012
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  5. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    [face_rofl] if you're joking. :( if you're not.

    If you're referring to my post, a lot of rural folks are self-employed rather than employed by others, are more individual focused (pull yourself up) vs community (people need a helping hand sometimes). Has nothing to do with edumacation or American values in my view, just a different life spin.
  6. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Vermont is one of the most Democratic states (it's definitely in the top 5, along with DC, Hawaii, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island). Yet it is very rural, over 95% white, and mostly working class with a high school education. It is also, probably, the most liberal state since it overwhelmingly supports openly-socialist, independent Senator Sanders, and is is currently preparing to implement single-payer healthcare on the state level.

    I think Vermont proves that it doesn't come down to urban/rural, or education level, though they maybe be contributing factors.
  7. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Maybe it's explained by the 95% white part. Social democracy is highly embraced is very homogenous societies of the developed world. Many people have no objection to socialism for their group. In this country, white people object to socialism first and foremost on the grounds that it will help African-Americans or other ethnic minorities. But because racism is no longer officially socially acceptable, they also perform complex mental exercises to erase that knowledge about why it is that they object. For me, it's a nearly complete explanation of rabid conservatism in states like Alabama. If white Alabamians could get single payer universal healthcare exclusively for white Alabamians, I tend tho think they'd be 99% in favor of it.

    My sense is that socialization is very hard to advance in ethnically diverse countries, unless the adoption of those policies happens before much of the diversification. Greece is highly socialized, but the economic troubles there have really brought the racists out into the open to complain about what's left of their social safety net going to help ethnic minority immigrants.
    Last edited by Jabbadabbado, Oct 17, 2012
  8. harpua Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 8
    Ghost... I hate to tell you this, but your new user name is lame.
  9. PRENNTACULAR VIP

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2005
    star 6
    Nothing from 2003 is new!
  10. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    Every state will be different, of course; personally I was just talking my state and raw generalities. I doubt there's much of an "education" gap between either side. There's probably more migrant workers "east" amongst the generally otherwise white population. In the urban centers, it's a more diverse mix of Caucasion, Black, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, Spanish and all sorts of backgrounds - also a lot more folks who moved here rather than being 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation (I used to be rare in the hiking group for being 3rd generation native on the maternal side).

    When one comes down to it, it's a complex issue based on socio-economic factors, mindset, etc. Sure, we have our narrow-minded folks (both sides), but ultimately either "side" has different visions on how to make/keep the country greater, i.e. means, not the goal.
  11. Aytee-Aytee Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2008
    star 5
    Spoken like someone quoting the WPA Slave Narratives.

    "Why yessa, massa sho is goods tus. Wes sangs and wes dance and wes let none udda de wat foke we gawn scap em all in dare sleep."
    Last edited by Aytee-Aytee, Oct 17, 2012
  12. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    Ghost is...Dreamer?
    Summer Dreamer likes this.
  13. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
  14. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    North Carolina barely went blue in 2008 and prior to then, we had voted red since 1976. However, the more urban areas of the state--Charlotte, Greensboro and the RTP area--are always solidly blue. Unfortunately the rural outweighs the urban here, and winning Charlotte (1 million people) and the RTP area (probably another million) plus Greensboro (250K) won't be enough to win a state of 8 million people. Which is why Amendment One was able to pass. The more urban areas were overwhelmingly against it, Chapel Hill by about 90 percent, but the rural areas who didn't want them gays to get married, stomped the vote.
  15. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    I haven't seen any polls broken down by party, but I suspect on our "same-sex marriage" vote: the "no's" will exceed 60/70% in the rural areas and a similar margin "yes" in the urban areas. Poll shows 55% for and 40% against on a state wide basis.
  16. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Why do you think that is? Maybe I'm just optimistic, but I don't think it all boils down to race in this day and age.


    Ghost was taken, I was sick of Darth, so I decided I'd pick something more positive from one of the stories I've written. Plus summer is my favorite season (I was born on the first day of summer, 6/21), and it sounds optimistic (which I try to be). And I'm always dreaming. So it does fit, though it definitely has to grow on me too :p

    So, what gave me away? ;)
    Last edited by Summer Dreamer, Oct 17, 2012
  17. harpua Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 8
    On your profile page, there's a button with "previous names" written on it... I clicked it.

    Your name reminds me of a 15 year old chick smoking weed for the first time... "just call me Summer Dreamer, maaaaaan." :p
  18. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    You're just being optimistic. Affirmative action is very nearly dead, just waiting for the coup de grace from the Supreme Court. After that goes, social inhibitions against open racism, really no more than a few decades old, will continue to slowly erode. What's the Tea Party itself other than a way for people to feel more comfortable about their own racism?
  19. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    Wanting to get rid of affirmative action isn't racist! Saying that race can't be taken into consideration will just reduce the already disproportionately low number of blacks and Hispanics enrolled in universities! That's all.

    That said, I don't think that irrational opposition to social programs and laws/rules to help the less fortunate is just about racism.
  20. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    We're not ready yet to get rid of all/any measures that will help to "even the playing field." No, it's impossible to achieve full equality of opportunity, but we need to be closer. (Personally, I think socio-economic factors might be better than skin color as ONE of the many factors in play.)
  21. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    I don't think it's just about racism either. In the U.S. it's only 80-90% about racism. There's a white suburban/rural coalition that believes poverty is mostly about urban minority populations. As we all know, some of the most Republican southern states, e.g. Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina and West Virginia are taker states - they get more in federal "handouts" of all kinds then they give back in federal tax revenue. Clearly these poor white folk voting overwhelmingly for Mitt Romney don't object to poor white folk living on the government dime.
    Arawn_Fenn likes this.
  22. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    I dunno. I think that fear of a government monopoly over a certain industry (it's okay if one or more corporations are in collusion) and just a fear of left-wing politics in general drive it. We've had two Red Scares, both less than 100 years ago. The rhetoric was at a height during the Reagan era as well (yeah, I remember welfare queens). Unlike many Western countries, we have never had viable communist, socialist, or anarchist parties. Then again, anti-leftist feelings did stem in part from anti-Semitism and fear of immigrants. I just think it's a lot more complicated than just majority racism.

    Also, no one helped Craig T. Nelson when he was on food stamps!
  23. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    I think its a pretty big deal that 10 of the 12 most-Democratic are part of the original 13 states. They're historically pretty liberal. The most Republican are mainly a result of the Manifest Destiny garbage-IE stomping Indians flat because God sayz its ok.
    Summer Dreamer likes this.
  24. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    Where do you think the people who ventured westward came from? They didn't just show up on a boat and come up with the resources to get a wagon, y'know. That kind of determinism from centuries back is silly, especially since the historically powerful populations in those areas (think the Yankees of the Northeast) have largely been displaced by newer groups of immigrants, which is all part of the region's political development.
  25. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Sure, but not everybody who was in the East heeded manifest destiny and the call to move west. Obviously. And the generations of immigrants who never went beyond the East Coast (hint: plenty of them) would have maintained that cultural continuity, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing the East-West split politically to begin with.