Why can't stormtroppers shoot strait?

See, the problem is that you are bringing the Expanded Universe into this. You cannot do that. There is another forum for that. We have zero reason to believe Han Solo was ever a member of the Empire. Even if he was, he would probably be an officer, technician, something else. Who knows.

Also, Luke never says the Imperial Academy. He simply says the Academy. We have no idea what this is. In fact, and I want to preface this by clearly stating I do not know if this is true for sure, but from those that have listened to the Star Wars commentary, Lucas states Luke was wanting to go to the Rebel Academy, or whatever their version is. I will be listening to it eventually, but I have yet to have the time. Again, if I am wrong, don't jump on me on that particular point. I freely admit it is second hand knowledge.

So, as I said in my original post, yes, the TIE pilots are clones, too. There is a reason that the TIE pilots and AT-AT drivers have a *heavy* resemblance to the pilots in Attack of the Clones.

Also, even if Luke did wish to go to the "Imperial" Academy (again we have no reason to believe this), we don't know what he was going for. Maybe he wanted to to clean toilets?

Brandon

 

Well, of course the armour is heavily similar, since whether the people inside are clones or recruits, it's clear that the armour in the classic Trilogy is decended from the Clone Army's armour (in universe at any rate).

But what about the Kaminoans wanting to keep Jango around? I doubt it was for training as it would be a huge expenditure on one trainer for 100,000 units (millions of troops).

 

There are any number of reasons why Jango may be kept around. However, I'd ask everyone to remember that he was not "held" there, not by any means. He could CLEARY come and go as he pleased, go as far as Coruscant which was not just in the next system over.

I'm sure others could come up with even more reasons, but they may keep him for one reason you mentioned (but I think you dismissed?) Maybe he does train some of them. Maybe he is there as some type of advisor. Better yet, they probably pay him more than anyone else could because they DON'T want him going anywhere else. From the dialogue in the movie, it is safe to assume the Kaminoians are not the only cloners in the universe. They are probably the best and capable of cloning far more troopers than anyone else, but if Jango proves to be this big of a success, perhaps another place may pay him more to get cloned by them? Both of those could be wrong, probably are wrong. Could be as easy as part of his deal was a ton of money, a son, and a place to stay. Again, he CAN leave freely. He is in no way, shape, or form a slave or put upon in any way.

Again, I'd just ask everyone to use common sense here. It won't kill you to, god forbid, disregard the ridiculous "Expanded Universe" and look at the films in a realistic fashion.

How much more proof do you need than SEEING it on screen, hearing it from Lucas, and even then having Lucas put Jango hitting his head on Slave I after his fight with Obi-Wan in order to connect it to A New Hope?

In the end, this is a non-issue to a point. We first see stormtroopers in Attack of the Clones, and we see them through Return of the Jedi. As per the films, and as per Lucas, and as per the hitting of Jango's head, and everything else, we, the viewers, are supposed to GET that they are clones, and not just any clones, but, in fact, clones of Jango.

There was a question earlier that I had missed. It was asked what if we briefly saw some recruitment station in Revenge of the Sith for non-clone stormtroopers? Well, then what I have been saying would be wrong. Unlike most current Star Wars' fans, I'm not afraid to think for myself and change my mind and admit when someone else is right. However, again, from what we HAVE been shown (on the official Star Wars site), we have no reason to believe we'll see anything but "Jango" stormtroopers.

Brandon

 

Ah, fantastic. The old "My opinion is different from yours, therefore I'm the only one to think for myself" response. So happy to see it's not dead.

Anyway, for the record, I don't read much EU. Some of it is good though.

I never said Jango was a slave. But Lama Su's line is "Oh, we keep him here." I'll conceed that advisor is more likely than I originally gave it credit for. However after 10 years of training, with the first batch already mature, would an advisor still be necessary? And I can't believe Jango would want to raise his son far distant from any humans save for the clones unless it was part of his side of the bargain.

And with this deal they've got with the Republic, for millions and millions of troops, I can easily see Kamino developing a monopoly on cloning. They were already one of the best, but with 10 years working on a huge project, they would leave all other competitors in the dust. You always learn things faster when you're actually doing them.

I still see continued sampling of his DNA to be the most logical reason for keeping Jango around.

 

"See, the problem is that you are bringing the Expanded Universe into this. You cannot do that."

Oh? Why not?

"People need to seriously sit back and realize that within the movie world, which is the only world that really matters in regards to Star Wars..."

I think you should speak for yourself before you make such grandiose statements.

"Can you show me within the films where we are supposed to believe they began recruiting people instead of cloning them?"

Maybe the fact that the stormtroopers are all different heights and all have different voices...?

''Again, years from now, if there even is an Expanded Universe, it will not be using the current version of it."

I have absolutely no idea what that is supposed to mean.

"The Star Wars Expanded Universe has already drastically changed at least two times, probably three. It will change again. All the stuff you're reading now will be discounted."

Well, no it hasn't... But I suppose you're clairvoyant as to what will transpire in literature years from now.

I don't like your argument. You make a lot of unfounded claims, and you trash the EU while its obvious you know very little about it. While I'll try not to get into an EU debate, I politely suggest that you consult some of the many fine Star Wars Books, officially licensed by Lucasfilm, of course, that address all the Star Wars issues you seem so incapable of answering.

 

I believe that all the stormies are clones. I've also figured out why troops are different sizes, have differant voices et ctra. It may not be the most intelligent theory, but it works for me.

They are, I think we'd all agree, millions, if not billions, of troops around by the Galatic Civil War. I hardly believe one planet can grow and train that may troopers. Therefore, our pal Palpy "borrowed" the Kemiodian (sp?) cloning process and set up shop on many different worlds. Therefore, the differences in gravities on these worlds, differant atmospheres, and possibly different diets and different levels of displine took there toll on Jango's clones.

But there are other factors that should be weighed in. One thing is dieseses. Having hundreds (or thousands) of, basically, the same person in one spot is gonna make some changes to the local dieseses in the area (nothing fatal, just things like colds and flus). How do we know there isn't some bugs in the SW universe that mess up vocal cords?

Another thing that'll mess up a clone is accident and injury. I would bet each and every clone is expensive (in money and time). Therefore, short of something that would make the clone useless for battle, the clones get excellant medical care. Accidents will happen (a poorly mantained base has a floor collaspe, for example) will injure and kill some clones, and training accidents in the field (a break in the seal of a troop's armor lets in poison gas, for example).

Finally, another thing that'll change the way a trooper grows and devolops will be local enviroment. One of the biggest (if not the biggest) effects of a trooper's growth and devolopment is differant planatary gravities. A planet with lower then normal gravity will probably have taller, lighter troopers that can move faster. Thier vocal cords will defferant then troops from other planets, giving them differant voices. Troops from planets that have higher gravity will be shorter, and more then likely stronger then troops from smaller planets.

How do we know that the troops aren't given differant voices for convience of the officers (both the clone trooper officers and volenteer nonclone officers). Maybe dedicated snowtroopers are given one voice, while scouttroopers and sandtroopers all have thier own differant voices. Or, maybe there are enough differant voices so no two people on a squad level have the same voice, and each differant voice is put into a specific spot on the squad. This would be exceptaionally handy in search and rescue/destroy missions.

 

You said "one world". Why cant they recruite from any of the other thousands of planets the Empire owns?

 

Your theory, while possible, seems somewhat far-fetched. Sure, its possible that there are bizarre viruses that change the timbre of one's voice, but isn't it more likely that they're just different people?? They're all different heights, so what seems more logical? They all suffered dehabilitating knee injuries that changed their growth? or... they're different people. Sure, your suggestions are indeed possible, but I think a much more simple explanation would be that they're not all clones.

 

Lucas states Luke was wanting to go to the Rebel Academy,

Um, no. It's the Imperial academy. Per common sense and GL.

Wouldn't be much of a rebellion if the sneaky rebels opened a public academy, now would it?

 

Actually, why do you assume it's the Imperial Academy? Luke blatantly hates the Empire (as he states), and he would not be going to their academy. There are probably thousands of academies in the universe. If I told you, "I want to join the military next year," that does not mean I am going to, I don't know, join the Chinese military, Australian military, or any other number of them. Luke most likely wanted to go to an academy, to get away, to leave. He would not have gone to an Imperial Academy. We are given zero evidence to show us that that is what he meant.

Brandon

 

Why are you all taking this seriously? Of course they will not hit Luke and his companions because heroes can't die. And I think that the argument of planet's different atmosphere and gravity changes CTs height and voices makes sense. This proves true in real science. Or if you'll never accept this argument, just pretend them all to be of same voice and height! Of course Lucas can't make them all the same with 70's technology!

 

No evidence except that that's what Lucas says it is?

Besides, do you really think the Empire allows other millitary acadamies to exist? No way.

Luke wanted to go to the Imperial Academy. Just like Biggs did. It's likely that he was also planning to go AWOL once he was done, just like Biggs did.

 

Imperial academies are for non-clone officers, or actually non-commissioned officers, like seargent, first lt., and squad leader. These ranks are occupied by clones only. Meanwhile the commissioned ranks, starting from 2nd lt. up to majors and generals are occupied by non-clones. That is the purpose of imperial academies; to train non-clone, exactly humans to become officers. Since Luke wanted to go to Imperial academy to be trained as a pilot, the Imperial academy includes training for pilots, exactly pilot officers. So if we'll include EU, there are many Imperial non-clone pilots that defected to the Rebel. Check out Fel and B. Darklighter's rank when they left the Empire; they do not occupy this non-commissioned ranks. So pilots in ANH are mixed clones and recruits; the recruits being the higher officers and the clones as a squad member.

 

These ranks are occupied by clones only. Meanwhile the commissioned ranks, starting from 2nd lt. up to majors and generals are occupied by non-clones.

Then there are an absurd number of officer rank troops in the Imperial army since no two OT troopers look alike.

Your ideas are nicely thought out, but I can't see one Academy training both field troops, vehicle troops, and pilots. It seems likely that they are different locations.

 

In reponse to some of the EU discussion, a lot of people here ARE forgetting that the EU does have a flow-on effect to the movies themselves.

Double-bladed lightsabers (TPM), Dash Rendar's Outrider (background scenery ANH), the Jawa Swapmeet (background scenery AOTC), the name of Coruscant (TPM/AOTC/ROTS), heck even the actual CLONE WARS themselves are EU territory (Clone Wars TV show, novels, comics).

It's a little hard to discount the EU, despite its small inconsistencies. Don't forget the SW movies themselves are constantly altered to make them in-line with greater saga continuity.

 

Luke explains why stormtroopers can't shoot straight: "I can't see a THING in this helmet!" - ANH

And there you have it.

 

I remember Lucas stating that Luke wanted to go to the Imperial Academy. The cut scene with Biggs reveals that Biggs who had gone to the academny, had gone awol after graduating and joined the rebels. Lucas said that this was what the rebels did ... the got the training and then high-tailed it out of the academny and joined the rebelion.

As for stormtroopers in the OT. Lucas discussed this in the commentary. They are clones but not all clones of Jango. They are clones from different sources. I do not believe stormtroopers are recruits, only officers are real people.

I guess it all depends on whether you beileve that cut scenes are cannon, or what Lucas says is cannon, or if it's only what's on the screen...

 

The Clone Wars are NOT EU. In ANH, Leia said that General Kenobi severed with her father in the Clone Wars.

 

And Luke asked Obi-Wan if he was in the Clone Wars.

 

The Clone Wars are NOT EU.

Forgive me, but isn't there something of a guideline on the TFN forums that only the MOVIES are canon? This makes it clear that the events of the Clone Wars outside of AOTC and ROTS (i.e. the Clone War tv shows, books and comics) are part of the Expanded Universe as they do not take place INSIDE the movies, nor are they straight from the pen of Lucas or the production team at Lucasfilm.

By that definition, the Clone Wars (apart from the battles seen in AOTC and ROTS) are clearly Expanded Universe territory. I don't see how they could possibly be an exception. Just because Maul uses a double-bladed lightsaber doesn't mean that Tales of the Jedi, where the double-bladed-lightsaber originates from, isn't part of the EU. Likewise with "Shadows of the Empire" despite the Outrider's cameo in ANH or any of the various versions of how the Death Star plans were stolen, despite the fact that they were in ANH.

Clone Wars (apart from what you see AOTC and ROTS) are EU territory.

Anyways my point was to say that the EU does have an effect on the movies and should not be dismissed as easily as some people do.

 

The REAL reason that stormtroopers can't shoot strait is because of the FORCE...

 

Just incase this comes up again in the future, it's spelled "straight" and not "strait."

Brandon

 

> Luke explains why stormtroopers can't shoot
> straight: "I can't see a THING in this helmet!" -
> ANH
>
> And there you have it.

Damn, beat me to it. I finally realised that for the first time the other day. Obviously the clonetroopers had better helmets!

 

Neither Stormtroopers or the heroes can actually shoot straight with those E-11 blasters. If you watch, they miss just as much as the stormtoopers, it's just that there are more stormtroopers then there are heroes so they get hit more then the heroes, but Leia gets hit in ROTJ, but only after the stormtrooper takes a moment to aim.

Remember what Kenobi said, "Not as clumsy or random as a blaster." add to that the helmets and you got some really bad shots. The stormtroopers hit doors because they can't see, and the helmets can come off too easily as well. They needed a strap, would have solved a lot of problems.

 

That's because Luke's the size of an ewok. Either they're clones or the Empire is very strict with size limits for suits.
Somewhere I heard someone say that Han had no such complaint with his suit.