Why Darth Vader became the strongest....

Darth Vader: Always Seeking Power!!!!!
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away?
When this aired in theaters back in 1977 a phenomenon had started that no one could know how big it would grow. From an epic story line of good vs. evil, to loveable characters, Star Wars won the hearts of its audiences world-wide.
At the center of the story line is the character Darth Vader-Dark Lord of the Sith. Vader is world renown as the most popular movie villain of all time. His appearance, his voice, his strength; all envelop a being searching for greater power.
As everyone knows Darth Vader wasn?t always the evil black figure we love. He began life as a slave boy born of prophecy. His destiny led him to the Jedi order and the rest is history.
Was Darth Vader the most powerful Jedi ever? Yes, plain and simple-however, he was a Sith as well. The Dark Lord always sought greater power. He wanted to be the best, so he trained, practiced, and applied his knowledge to that of power and destruction.
It has been rumored that perhaps Vader was not as strong as he could have been due to his injuries he sustained on Mustafar. I will disprove this theory in the following paragraphs. Darth Vader sought to have more power, plain and simple. He was not satisfied with being just another Jedi or Sith-he wanted to be the best! For starters, some say since he lost both of his natural arms in battle, that he could no longer produce force lighting. One tends to forget in regards to nature after seeing the films, lightning coming from individuals hands. Don?t you think if force lightning was the ultimate power Vader would?ve found a way to call it from it?s natural source-meaning the sky, nature? Also in regards to Vader not being able to launch lightning from his hands, whose to say he couldn?t use his eyes or mouth, or other body parts if it was that important to use. My other query with him not caring about force lightning is that if he truly needed to have real limbs to use it, why didn?t he go to Kamino or another cloning facility and have them use his DNA to create biological ?real? arms that would be able to produce this weapon? Remember, only the lower part of his arms were cut off, he still had flesh for a good part of his arms.
In footage from episode 3 we see many of the prominent members of the Jedi council shot down by blaster fire. None of the Jedi were able to stop this barrage of fire with their saber skills. We know some Jedi survived Order 66, as per Star Wars history logging that Vader and his minions hunted down and destroyed the remaining Jedi. My point is that Lightning although powerful was not the mastery of the force as some make it out to be. Lightning could be blocked by hand and by a light saber. The blaster fire as we?ve seen was not blocked by hand by anyone, except for Darth Vader in Episode 5. He used the force to block the assault fire by Han Solo and take the pistol from the rebel with ease. Even though Vader has mechanical arms he could still exert the force through them-meaning he would've been able to use the force to block lightning if he didn't have his saber for some reason!
Here is one of the coolest facts about Darth Vader, he used the force without moving his arms around or raising his hand to initiate the force. He choked countless officers without lifting a finger, he nailed Luke on Bespin with numerous items without raising a hand! Every other character, including Master Yoda, raised their hands to call upon the force. Vader was strong enough he didn?t need to unless for showing off.
One of my final closing arguments that Darth Vader was the most powerful Jedi ever is this, ?the force surrounds us, it binds us, luminous beings are we, not this crude matter!? Mater Yoda said this and this proves my point. Even though Vader had mechanical limbs, he could still call upon the force. His midiclorian count didn?t dwindle because of losing his limbs, the body reproduces cells constantly, and he was only growing stronger as time passed. Having the added strength o

 

Well, I believe that it's simply a matter of opinion that Darth Vader is the strongest. It would be questionable for both the PT and OT, in other words, before and after his battle with Obi-Wan in Revenge of the Sith. Some would say Yoda was the most powerful Jedi, others would say Tyranus, others may say some random Jedi who lived thousands of years before the Clone Wars. In truth, we'll never really know. You're right, on the other hand, that Anakin brought balance to the Force in the end. He was the Chosen One. Perhaps he delivered in a way that the Jedi originally mistook, yes, but that's all he was born to do. His thirst for power was a completely different thing.

 

Well he was the chosen one and there really weren't very many Jedi's left to turn to the darkside....

Also I don't think Vader really cared much for Luke in ESB, he almost killed him a million times in the duel. Especially on the ramp, Vader comes out swinging like he means business.

You are correct though it was Vader's mission to capture Luke and thats why he wasn't TRYING to kill him though I doubt he would mind if he had. IMO he definantly wasn't going easy on him and I doubt he was holding back as the duel progressed.

One of those swings could have easily taken out Luke.


Just my thoughts.....

 

I don't think that Vader's ability to use/sense the Force diminished at Mustafar. His limitations in the OT were all because he was weighted dawn by the suit and robotic body parts, no metter haw good they are, are inferior to natural ones.

 

In the ROTS novelization it does state that Anakin is the most powerful Jedi ever. It mentions this in the beginning of the book and I think Mace says something about it too later on.

However, It is a fact that Vader lost some of his power when he went in the suit. All the evidence I need comes from Lucas. He said in an interview that after he gets cut up, he becomes more like a Dooku or Maul rather than one of the top dogs(Yoda, Sidious, Mace).

 

he was never a jedi in the true sense. He may have been the most powerful force user, but his actions are not jedi like. He's beena hybrid all his disturbed young life. Obiwan out thought, moved and fought him every time - including ANH were he outwitted him. So if Obiwan is a better jedi , then Anakin by default isnt. He may have been the most powerful channel of the force - but he never even became a jedi in the myriad of ways the "hokey religion" represents.

 

I don't think I would go as far to say he was a hybrid. He was the hero of the Clone Wars and was promoted to Jedi Knight. He wasn't really out to do evil things, he only did them because he thought it would save Padme. That's why you see a tear on Mustafar, he doesn't like what he's doing and if he could take it all back he would, but it's too late. He was never really evil he was a tragic hero who was manipulated in to doing evil.

Once he saw that Padme was with Obi-Wan he totally lost it. The person that he gave everything to save was against him. That is why Obi-Wan won the fight, Anakin lost control of his emotions and his judgement was clouded.

Obi-Wan may have out thought him, but I don't think he out fought him. Before the high ground I would give the advantage to Anakin. He was landing more physical blows and forcing him on the retreat.

 

"The road to Hell is often paved with good intentions"
To support the original author of this thread. Vader did want Luke to join him at his side. To Vader(Anakin), Padme and their child (since they only knew of one), were the most important things in his life. With Padme gone, Luke was the missing link that made his life complete. Vader wanted supreme power. Palpatine was only in his way. Although he feared Palpatine, he also partly blamed him for the death of Padme and his current physical state and wanted to kill him. Not only was it Sith instinct but it was also human nature. He wanted revenge. Missing limbs would not constitute loss of midi-chlorians as the author said, the body constantly regenerates. Biology 101 anyone? The prophecy of the Chosen One, as with all prophecies, was vague and cloudy. No one could have accurately prophesised it. Even the prophets in the bible didn't know exactly how the life of Jesus would unfold. Nor did they know his name. They did know that a child would be born and he would save the world. Like the Jedi prophets knew a child would be born and he would bring balance to the force. That's all they knew. I agree 100% with the author of the thread. Good thread VaderBob.

*~~>Darth Spyder<~~*

 

Listen to vader bob he speaks the truth lucas has good ideas but is still a bit of a fool whn it comes to biology

 

Suited Vader was not the most powerful person of the saga. He was 20% less than the Emperor so that takes care of that right away (before even thinking of Mace, Anakin, or Yoda).

There's no question that the suit lowered his mobility. That alone hinders him, let alone the force power he lost.

 

I thank all of you for your comments, most of them I'm also in agreement with. I'm curious how we know that Vader was 20% less powerful than the emperor? Who threw who down the shaft?

As I briefly described in my thread, Vader didn't lose any force power, that is a common misconception. Did the suit lower his mobility? He survived over 18 years as a loyal servant to the Emperor, hunted down and destoryed the remaining Jedi, except for Obi-Wan and Yoda who stayed hidden because they know if they fought Vader, the end outcome would've been their deaths, survived countless double crossings, and constantly sought more power. Darth stood toe-to-toe with a fully trained Luke and let him have the battle. If Vader focused on using his anger he could destroy anyone if necessary. Vader could've killed anyone without lifting a finger if that was his intention. He could've just crushed Obi-Wan in ANH, but he wanted to slice him down as he was on Mustafar. It has been stated in many articles that the dark side is stronger, can you think of anyone with more hatred or anger than Vader? Boba-fett had some anger but no force talents that we know of. Remember, I stated that Vader became the most powerful, not the best swordsman, because again, he didn't have to be-but he was still no less the man!

 

disagree with that. As for the comment earlier saying that the body regenerates... not true. If you lose a leg or arm, you have now, and for ever more, less blood than you had before. the amount of blood you have in you is governed by the requirements of the body.

 

We know that Vader was 20% less powerful than Palpatine in ROTJ because George Christ said so ...

so, yes, that does prove Vader wasn't the most powerful Sith Lord or force user ... However, that doesn't mean he was simlpy a push-over at this point ...

Anakin in ROTS, as far as sheer force power, is nearly as powerful as Mace, Yoda and Palpatine, and is more powerful than Darth Tyranus and Obi-Wan Kenobi ... Fast forward twenty-two years, and obviously the Emperor is more powerful than his ROTS counterpart, refusing to even carry a lightsaber to defend himself ... so ROTJ Palps, on the 1 to 10 scale, being a perfect 10, ROTS Sidious was an 8 or 9 ... Yoda and Mace were nearly (if not) equal to Palpatine in ROTS, so they also were an 8 or 9, possibly a 7, compared to ROTJ Palpatine ... Yoda, as he has aged and grown sick and weak, may have fallen to the 6/7 range by ESB ... if Anakin in ROTS was nearly as powerful as Sidious, Yoda and Mace, he would have been a 6 or 7 compared to Palpatine in ROTJ, leaving Tyranus and Obi-Wan just behind in sheer force talent at a 5, or half the power of ROTJ Palpatine ... So, if Vader is 80% of ROTJ Palpatine, he would of course be a level 8 on the 1 to 10 scale of force power by the time of his death, or as powerful as Sidious and slightly more powerful than Yoda and Mace in ROTS ...

As far as Luke beating Vader, obviously both were conflicted about destroying eachother, and the only time one was determined to destroy the other was when Luke, overcome with anger, lashed out at Vader with darkside ... Luke had minimal Jedi training and recieved most of his power from his hereditary force talent and was probobly on a level of power equal to Anakin in Episode II ... had Luke been anyother Jedi and not his son, Vader would have killed him without question ... no way Luke was 80% of Palpatine in ROTJ ...

No Vader was not the most powerful, but second only to ROTJ Palpatine in the saga

 

Well,I guess theres many reasons why Vader became the most powerful...

-He was the chosen one,obv the chosen one is given crazy powers and strength to make sure he can fufill his destiny.
-He had the highest midichlorin count the Jedi had ever heard of.
-His thirst for power motivated him to become more and more powerful and learn more and more about the force.
-He had many many years to practice the ways of the force while helping rule the Empire.
-All the others were destroyed [Aside from Yoda,Obi Wan,Luke and Leia.]so obv he was the most powerful.
-He was skilled even as a padawan,think of his skills after he's been a Sith Lord for a few years.
-Even though after his incident on Mustafar,he's still strong enough to destroy the Empire.THATS REAL STRENGTH.

 

I really don't think Suited Vader is second only to ROTJ Palpatine. How do you know that Palpatine grew in power from ROTS to ROTJ? Perhaps ROTS was his prime, that is just an opinion. Yoda and Mace were about equal with Palps in ROTS so those three are already ahead of Suited Vader.

In the ROTS novelization, which was line edited by Lucas, Anakin is said to be the most powerful Jedi. That puts Anakin ahead of Mace and Yoda in terms of power alone. So from that I would put Suited Vader at #5. Lucas himself said Vader became a "flunky" after Mustafar.

That's not saying Vader is a push over, he certainly isn't. But he's not what he once was.

 

but lucas said that with the suit he is not even half the force user he should be.he was suposed to be 200% palpatine and ended up as 80% palpatine.

and i dont think vader was the strongest sith or anakin the strongest jedi

the strongest sith was palpatine by a long shot.

the strongest jedi were mace/yoda by a long shot.

 

the strongest jedi were mace/yoda by a long shot.

Well in terms of raw power the book says Anakin is the strongest. Even if he's not, it's not by a long shot.

 

Yesterday I was watching the TPM and I heard QGJ and OBW referring to the midichlorean count as the "midichlorean concentration". If GL did not make that "vader after mustafar is 80% emperor" announcement, one could simply argue that the ability to use the force is not related to the total number of midichloreans an individual has, but their concentration in the unit volume of blood. And therefore, losing a limb does not mean losing power.

Lucas said it, because otherwise he would have to answer a more diffucult question, "If Vader is that powerful, why he doesn't kill the emperor single handedly by himself and rule the galaxy alone?"

Now as a Star Wars fan, I truly am frustrated to hear that the innocent kid, lover, jedi knight, villain of 3 movies, the iconic bad guy of a quarter century, the first Dark Lord Of The Sith we saw, who was able to move objects using the force without any jedi training during an intense pod racing as a 9 yr old child, WHO HAS A PROPHECY WRITTEN ABOUT HIM, is NOT the most powerful Sith or Jedi!!!??!!!! A boy comes with a midichlorean count off the chart, and he becomes the second, third?

There could be another way to explain why Vader did not kill emperor instead GL rushing in and saying "he is 80% of the emperor". I don't want to think like that... Well he could still be 200% the emperor, but may not be capable to run an empire alone... We still see DS forming plots in the ROTJ, and vader never was doing such things, he just invades, destroys with brute force, he is not somebody to remain behind the scenes and pull strings. So he needs more power to run an Empire, which is a task he can achieve by having an evil luke on his side... this is a good explanation also....

I JUST HATE TO THINK THAT VADER IS NOT THE MOST POWERFUL!!!!!!! I HATE IT, I HATE IIIIT!!!!!

 

Yesterday I was watching the TPM and I heard QGJ and OBW referring to the midichlorean count as the "midichlorean concentration". If GL did not make that "vader after mustafar is 80% emperor" announcement, one could simply argue that the ability to use the force is not related to the total number of midichloreans an individual has, but their concentration in the unit volume of blood. And therefore, losing a limb does not mean losing power.

Lucas said it, because otherwise he would have to answer a more diffucult question, "If Vader is that powerful, why he doesn't kill the emperor single handedly by himself and rule the galaxy alone?"

Now as a Star Wars fan, I truly am frustrated to hear that the innocent kid, lover, jedi knight, villain of 3 movies, the iconic bad guy of a quarter century, the first Dark Lord Of The Sith we saw, who was able to move objects using the force without any jedi training during an intense pod racing as a 9 yr old child, WHO HAS A PROPHECY WRITTEN ABOUT HIM, is NOT the most powerful Sith or Jedi!!!??!!!! A boy comes with a midichlorean count off the chart, and he becomes the second, third?

There could be another way to explain why Vader did not kill emperor instead GL rushing in and saying "he is 80% of the emperor". I don't want to think like that... Well he could still be 200% the emperor, but may not be capable to run an empire alone... We still see DS forming plots in the ROTJ, and vader never was doing such things, he just invades, destroys with brute force, he is not somebody to remain behind the scenes and pull strings. So he needs more power to run an Empire, which is a task he can achieve by having an evil luke on his side... this is a good explanation also....

I JUST HATE TO THINK THAT VADER IS NOT THE MOST POWERFUL!!!!!!! I HATE IT, I HATE IIIIT!!!!!

 

The official site called Vader Emperor Palpatine's greatest apprentice. So that means before the suit he's very powerful and when he sustains his injuries he's not as powerful, but still powerful enough, even more so than Maul or Count Dooku. Let's remember that he was just 22 years old when he turned. Had he never sustained any injuries by the time he was 25 or 30, Anakin would have been the most powerful Jedi ever.

Ki-Mundi, Qui-Gon, and Sidious all said that the Force was strong in Anakin. I don't think he was as strong as he could have been. When Obi-Wan was Anakin's age when Anakin turned, he was still a padawan learner so that alone speaks loud volumes of how powerful Anakin was even as a Jedi Knight during the events of ROTS and at that tender age, he matched Obi-Wan's power. In another two or three years or so, Obi-Wan, Mace, Yoda, or Sidious would have not been able to match him.

 

I JUST HATE TO THINK THAT VADER IS NOT THE MOST POWERFUL!!!!!!! I HATE IT, I HATE IIIIT!!!!!

That's why I tend to think that Pre-Suit Vader is on par if not greater than everyone else in terms of power. He's not as far in the knowledge department as others, but as far as saber skills and force powers he's really hard to beat. To me it just makes sense to the story that he was finally going to be able to be able to get what he wanted, but he was cut down because of his own arrogance. He was his own worst enemy.

 

Darth Vader became the strongest because his feelings/emotions were always the strongest. Since he let those dictate his actions and choices, he became the strongest.

 

Good call Obiwan056!
There's some interesting "points of view" in this thread. I'm glad to see how many others

feel and see the obvious reasoning that Vader(in the suit) was the most powerful.

I'm completely baffled(this is even an understatement) that Lucas of all people would make the silly statement that Vader is

20% less stronger than the emperor! I think he's just avoiding having to answer ?'s about

Vader's increasing abilities during the time gap we don't see (ep.3 &4).

Some folks missed the in depth detail I gave as to why based on clear observations that Vader

is the most powerful-the suit did NOT affect him!!! He could wield the force in ways unknown

to others, he could still call on it to move faster and strike harder than anyone else.

Anyways I explained it enough originally, I would like to see Vader come into his own in the

live tv show, that would be phenomenal! Everything comes down to an opinion; since we're

dealing with the Star Wars universe, and I think I and the others that agree that Vader's

anger and hatred were unmatched(as well as his love for his son,in sacrificing himself)-

giving him unlimited power-have a very good point and wish we

could see even more of Vader's skills in upcoming Star Wars releases! Vader rules the Star

Wars universe-Case settled!

 

Well even if what Lucas says doesn't make sense, it's still 100% canon. It's his story so he has the last say on everything. If Lucas says Suited Vader is 80% of the Emperor, then he's 80% of the Emperor. That's why Vader needed Luke to join him. He wasn't powerful enough to take down the Emperor by himself.

I still think Pre-Suited Vader is the strongest in terms of power. Quote from the Official Site:

"With his unparalled Force abilities, Vader swept through the Jedi Temple. He led his elite clone trooper forces through the polished corridors, cutting a swath of death and destruction through the remaining Jedi on Coruscant."

 

We can't really trust that, however, as Obi-Wan proved to be more than his equal during their initial duel at Mustafar. With that many Clones as support, Dooku, Tyranus, Grievous, Jango, or Sidious could have successfully lead the assault of the Jedi Temple. As for Vader's power, he didn't turn out the way Sidious had imagined. By the time of the OT, Vader is a nuissance to Sidious, who wants to replace him with someone "far younger and more powerful", just as he did with Anakin and Dooku decades before. Had he not been crippled on Mustafar, he would have truly had no equal within a few years time. Unfortunately, all the powerful Force-sensitive candidates were killed during Order 66, so Sidious was waiting Vader out.